VIR this past weekend

#1

A few quick comments because I was supposed to leave for the beach to see my family, three hours ago. I’ll get back on the Forums either tomorrow (Tuesday) or Wednesday.

  1. During the Saturday race, I braked late at the end of the backstraight and gave Mike Davidson a hard square shove in the rear bumper, causing him (and me, but this doesn’t matter) to lose a position. There was no damage to either car but after the race I immediately told Mike to pick three drivers and to have them make a decision on the penalty. The drivers decided to DQ me from the race (specifically to lose Championship points but kept my finishing position) and to put me on probation for the Sunday race. I accepted this ruling. Later, they mentioned that they might want to change the ruling, based on the fact that there was no body damage, they had not consulted the CCR, and that I don’t have a history of causing avoidable contact. However, I accepted, and still accept the initial ruling. And I did not cause avoidable contact in Sunday’s race and thus should be back in good standing.

  2. Despite the rumors, there was no fight in the paddock. Two drivers had a somewhat heated discussion.

  3. Yes, there was more contact than normal (within Spec E30 and with 944) but after reviewing the situations, talking with the drivers, and seeing the damage, assigning absolute blame wasn’t possible except in two situations. Mine and Matt Olson’s. Clearly, we both caused avoidable contact and we will both be penalized. The details will be posted later although I consider mine finalized.

I also want to stress that it is very difficult to place blame (unless it is obvious as in my Saturday incident and Matt’s on Sunday, and some we have seen in the past) but I will continue to work through this as we race. And yes, we need to make every effort to stay off of each other’s cars when side by side. Robert Patton and I raced very closely on the first lap of the Saturday race (see Mike’s video) and gave each other enough room to avoid contact. However, there were more "racing incidents" than we want to see. In each, neither driver was upset or felt to be the victim, the damage was light, and the cars bumped a little in heavy traffic early in the race.

Officially, all we can do in these situations is stress to the drivers that we want to keep it as clean as possible.

Overall, it was a good weekend and we all need to know that when we had six cars racing, it was easier. With big fields, we will have more incidents. But this is not saying it’s ok to rub each other…but that the potential is higher. Plus, while the number of incidents may rise, the actual chance of being in one may not. That is, if we had one incident in a field of 6 cars, and three incidents in a field of 25 cars, the incident rate actually went down. Each of us as individuals, is less likely to get hit.

Carter

#2

Shouldn’t be typing this late but I want to get this in right under Carter’s post and I know I can’t get to my computer until lunch tomorrow so here goes.

This is info for me to see on paper and other’s to take away from, whatever that may be for them. It is not an incident report but how I got myself into a situation of contact from that moment’s point of view then and how I see it now.

Interestingly my contact with Sasha occurred at T14 like Carter’s and, I believe, the incident started similarly, difference being with a much higher cost and impact; unfortunately mostly bared by Sasha vs myself. From the Sunday point of view, here goes. Carter came up on me at oak tree recovering ground after his off earlier in the race. I “let� (not much decision making here) him through and he dragged me down the back straight where we caught Sasha entering T14. Carter got around Sasha braking hard to the left and began his turn in with Sasha between us at this point, me braking hard as well. I take T14 angled left for the greatest amount of straight braking for a late turn in. With Carter on the outside just having made his pass, Sasha took a tighter line with a corresponding slower speed. My “oh shucks� hit at this point and began tightening my line bringing me into the loose stuff losing more braking, tightening more, approaching Sasha at a faster rate, tightening more, bringing myself into the grass inside of T14 and there goes all braking. Results of my decision making are obvious or I wouldn’t be typing this.

I honestly had no idea what happened to cause the contact at that point. Went to impound, pulled the camera, reviewed the tape 5 or so times, still had no clue what caused me to not avoid Sasha. Just couldn’t see it. Fast fwd to late Sunday night, watched the tape many, many times on the bigger TV and still didn’t see what stopped me from avoiding Sasha. Stopped looking and used my head for the first time since then and leaning back into the couch with my hands laced over my head I think I kinda got it straight.

Sasha was my partner for comp school in Feb. We chased each other around the track for many laps. I know his lines for the most part. This is knowledge I had and didn’t use. He faster in some sections while I remember now I braked later than him then. Add in the larger car space “bubble� comfort zone from more HPDE experience than racing. Add in the single tracked mind of rookie experience that right turn means turn right. Add in a bit of freezing up on impending impact with actually still time to avoid. Note to myself now, there is actually asphalt on the outside of T14 for me to use had I turned slight left vs tightening my line to stay outside Sasha’s “bubble�. Maybe would have just punted him similar to Carter’s incident or just mowed a little grass missing him completely and Sasha would have been nicely down the rollercoaster into hogpen hanging on behind Carter.

Adjusting lines, looking every where you can, using knowledge gained from being on the track with the same drivers multiple times, making straights where there are turns. Carter brakes too deep with greater experience, slips up and gives Davidson a shove; they move on. I brake deep and give Sasha a slam leaving him body damage second race of my ‘career’.

We are a large group of rookies this year and I’ll tell the rest of my class it is not fun to see a buddy you had a blast with in your comp school tell you the whole thing “took the wind out of my sails� while you are apologizing. I think that is the worst place to be on the track. We hang around guys like Carter and Davidson in the paddock talking much the same but we have years to go on the track and be able to execute it.

#3

arrrggggh. Double post.

#4

Carter and Olson,

I really appreciate your candor and thoughtful comments on these incidents. In most racing incident situations it seems much more normal for those involved to be making excuses and blaming the other "squirrels" around them. It takes real men to so humbly reflect on your own mistakes and I applaud you both for it.

I am hopeful that once Spec E30 reaches Florida that we have a group of guys with the same attitudes that you MA guys seem to have.

Best of luck resolving the issues and getting the damage repaired.

Don

#5

Matt, A stand-up post.

I didn’t realize that you had difficulties on Sunday. My earlier ranting did not have any connection your incident.

Therein lies the difficulty of being a series administrator…Assessing damages, personalaties,situtations, attitudes,past histories, etc., makes for a difficult task.

Again, a stand-up post from someone that is willing to learn from a mistake.

Regards, Robert Patton

#6

+1 !

Patton wrote:

[quote]Matt, A stand-up post.

I didn’t realize that you had difficulties on Sunday. My earlier ranting did not have any connection your incident.

Therein lies the difficulty of being a series administrator…Assessing damages, personalaties,situtations, attitudes,past histories, etc., makes for a difficult task.

Again, a stand-up post from someone that is willing to learn from a mistake.

Regards, Robert Patton[/quote]

#7

My two cents… I also commend Carter on how he is handling the situation. We all know he’s in a tough position and as our fearless leader he continually sets a good example. Thank you Carter.

With that said, I think the decision made on Sat. was on the harsh side and I hope it is changed. In general I think the jury system is a fine idea, but I think everyone needs to understand the rules. I think we owe it to each other (in the event we get asked to be on a panel and make one of these tough decisions) to review the CRR and be up on the NASA policies as they pertain to contact etc. If not we should leave it to the officials.

Penalizing someone with a clean record to the full letter of law on their first offense is not setting a good precedent for Spec E30. We are in a growing series with a diverse group of drivers from all backgrounds and experience levels. We are running wheel to wheel with 25+ car fields, there will be mistakes made and there will be contact. That is the reality and how we deal with it is, in my mind, super important. I don’t want to have or see sheet metal damage, but I do want to be able to race someone at 100%. When you race as closely as we do, accidents will happen. And when they do, let’s be sensable about how the situation is handled. Let’s not let this series become the BMW CCA or the PCA. Been there done that… whatever.

As Cobetto always says, we are all brothers in speed, let’s embrace that and go race in the best series in the world. You guys rule, can’t wait til’ CMP!!!

Jonny Allen

#8

jonnyallen wrote:

[quote]

Penalizing someone with a clean record to the full letter of law on their first offense is not setting a good precedent for Spec E30.

You guys rule, can’t wait til’ CMP!!!

Jonny Allen[/quote]

Carter is doing an awsome job. I would hate to be in his position with this many personalities coming into the series. It has to be alot to deal with.

I’m not trying to correct you or anything johnny but Carter’s penalty was not to the full letter of law. Research what happened to me when I "punted" chris at Summit Point last year and Carter’s penalty seems fair. That was my first and only incident. (There is a video of the incident on this site)

I’ve learned alot from Carter, he is one of the many people that have pointed me in the right direction on several occasions concerning new tracks, racecraft, lines, passing, rules, etc. This incident does not take away from the respect I have for him. He is a very talented driver and I’m sure i’ll steal some more of his speed secrets eventually (if he will let me) :stuck_out_tongue:

CMP is going to be a blast!

#9

just remember that a region can adopt the 13/13 style competitive format, so maybe you can’t race at 100%… Lots of people would prefer not to spend unnecessary $ on bodywork, if at all possible. Contact is not "inevitable", somebody is making a mistake.
(Carter, maybe we should have a sticky message somewhere here for each region that states the contact rules, or an appendix in the Spec E30 Regs)
bruce

jonnyallen wrote:

[quote]My two cents… I also commend Carter on how he is handling the situation. We all know he’s in a tough position and as our fearless leader he continually sets a good example. Thank you Carter.

With that said, I think the decision made on Sat. was on the side harsh side and I hope it is changed. In general I think the jury system is a fine idea, but I think everyone needs to understand the rules. I think we owe it to each other (in the event we get asked to be on a panel and make one of these tough decisions) to review the CRR and be up on the NASA policies as they pertain to contact etc. If not we should leave it to the officials.

Penalizing someone with a clean record to the full letter of law on their first offense is not setting a good precedent for Spec E30. We are in a growing series with a diverse group of drivers from all backgrounds and experience levels. We are running wheel to wheel with 25+ car fields, there will be mistakes made and there will be contact. That is the reality and how we deal with it is, in my mind, super important. I don’t want to have or see sheet metal damage, but I do want to be able to race someone at 100%. When you race as closely as we do, accidents will happen. And when they do, let’s be sensable about how the situation is handled. Let’s not let this series become the BMW CCA or the PCA. Been there done that… whatever.

As Cobetto always says, we are all brothers in speed, let’s embrace that and go race in the best series in the world. You guys rule, can’t wait til’ CMP!!!

Jonny Allen[/quote]

#10

We are running the 13/13 format. We are the only run group that runs under the 13/13.

#11

MikeD wrote:

I don’t believe that is correct. I thought GTS Challenge is the only group (I’m no expert)?

#12

MikeD wrote:

[quote]I’m not trying to correct you or anything johnny but Carter’s penalty was not to the full letter of law. Research what happened to me when I "punted" chris at Summit Point last year and Carter’s penalty seems fair. That was my first and only incident. (There is a video of the incident on this site)[quote]

Thanks Mike, I’ll check it out.

Jonny

#13

jonnyallen wrote:

[quote]MikeD wrote:

I don’t believe that is correct. I thought GTS Challenge is the only group (I’m no expert)?[/quote]

You might be right I honestly can’t remember.

#14

http://spece30.com/component/option,com_mamboboard/Itemid,/func,view/catid,16/id,6158/#6158

might be useful to know prior to a race …

#15

Matt,

Thanks for your post. You’ve demonstrated great integrity ever since our contact. I’ve enjoyed your company off the track and have no worries about you racing like a cowboy or establishing a pattern of contact.

It’s not a good feeling to have to spend money and time to fix sheet metal. But this is racing and that’s why I prepared a SpecE30 instead of building my e36 M3 into an IP car. If you had bent that, I’d be crying right now and I would have punched you right in the head! So, don’t beat yourself up too badly about my e30. You’ve demonstrated everything to me that makes me feel better about this: you’ve admitted a mistake, said you’re sorry, and tried to learn from what happened.

I do agree with Bruce who said that when contact occurs, someone made a mistake. I also regard this as a serious issue and not simply a “racing incident.� Repeated incidents will be very bad for respect of the series. I think contact severe enough to bend a car is always avoidable, or should I say there’s a point in the race where a choice is made. If it’s a good choice, contact is avoided. If it’s a bad choice, contact happens. Contact doesn’t make you a bad driver or a bad person. It means you exhibited some bad judgment for a split second. As rookies, we’re going to have those moments, but hopefully we can enjoy them by ourselves instead of with others (witness how effectively Brian Jones accomplished this)!

I enjoy the large fields and close racing of SpecE30 (which also increases the “risk�). I had a wonderful weekend and even the race in which I got tagged was a blast. Dirt-tracking it to stay in front of you and to continue chasing Laura was fun (unfortunately I spent enough time looking at her rear that I should be in trouble with Robert)! The racing on-track and comradeship off-track keeps me happy that I’ve joined this series.

Sasha

#16

There are few VIR threads going on so I wasn’t sure where to post the pic. BTW I have no idea who took the pic, just found it on the net. Thought you (right coast ) guys would like to see the field at the start

#17

Sasha, need your contact info. Send to olson at roadracetech com. Picked up a little present for us from a local high school auto shop department. Well, not so little as needed the trailer. B)

#18

Hey notice those clowns in the pic up front all bunched up. Not leaving room for a hole shot, stalled car, what-have-you. Particularly that bananna yellow thingy. Rookies…

Now look at the back of the pack; they know what’s up. :wink:

#19

I think those front guys know better than to give up even an inch to any of the other front guys…

#20

nasaregistrar wrote:

I think your right. The holeshot is just a little bit riskier.