SpecE30 in BMWCCA Club Races

#1

Some guys are imagineering a new class to increase club race (CR) participation. I suggested that since we are already allowed to race KP, but following our specs, all BMWCCA would have to do to attract more races is buy another plastic trophy for us.

By allowing us to participate adhereing to our own build rules, they’ve already created a class for us. So the “Why should BMWCCA create a class for SpecE30” is a non-argument. It’s already happened. What’s failed to happen is that SpecE30 participants aren’t showing up because they feel like they are competing against KP cars. All BMW CR would have to do to get more of us to show up is to create a perception that we’re not competing against (cammed, chipped, better suspension & Hoosiers) KP, but against each other.

And nothing like a plastic trophy to create clarity as to who is competing against whom.

It’s not a matter of “gee it would be nice if BMW CR would do this for us”. It’s a matter of “how can BMW CR increase participation with the least effort”.

I’m getting my ass kicked in the thread. Go help me.

#2

I posted, but I don’t think I helped your case :wink:

#3

I think theres enough nasa to give guys their fill (especially if you cross-over regions).
I’ve havent heard great things about BMW club racing either (but I’ve never run with them so I could be totally wrong)

#4

How about a show of hands of who is not particpating in BMWCCA weekends simply because they have to compete against fully prepared KP cars?

#5

Maybe it’s a lame reason but the main thing keeping me from BMWCCA CR is the “stickers” requirement. I’d have to renumber the whole car. Having said that, I WOULD like to run in some BMWCCA events (hell, I’ve got my BMWCCA rookie license sitting here on my desk - have never used it). So count me in as one of the potential crossovers. Hey, at my age (or more properly, at my SKILL level) the more seat time the better… :wink:

#6

Fred42 wrote:

but does bmw have to create a specific class for your car for you to “crossover”? you can your car in KP any time…having to run the required decals will not change…

#7

dmwhite wrote:

[quote]Fred42 wrote:

but does bmw have to create a specific class for your car for you to “crossover”? you can your car in KP any time…having to run the required decals will not change…[/quote]

Nope, they don’t have to create a specific class and I have considered running in KP. BUT, it would be a relatively cheap incentive to get me off my butt and into some BMWCCA events. I guess it just depends on whether BMWCCA wants more cars in their events or not. And I don’t know the BMWCCA CR situation well enough to know the answer to that.

#8

Ranger wrote:

to be fair here, the discussion on bf.c is about how to fix the broken/underpopulated/dying stock class…it’s not about adding additional classes, which is what you are suggesting with the spec e30 specific class…

#9

dmwhite wrote:

[quote]Ranger wrote:

to be fair here, the discussion on bf.c is about how to fix the broken/underpopulated/dying stock class…it’s not about adding additional classes, which is what you are suggesting with the spec e30 specific class…[/quote]

I agree that the thread morphed into that. But the OP wanted to talk about creating a class “between” Dieing stock and successful Prepared. So I’m on topic. Ok, well maybe not so much. .

It’s not about creating the class. BMW CR has already done that. It’s right there in the CCR’s. It’s just about the plastic trophy and some mumbled recognition that SpecE30 finishers will be recognized separately from KP.

If my car was competitive in KP I’d run it in BMW CR. Even if a bunch of SpecE30’s showed up for a BMW CR race, I’d show up. I only got to do 5 race weekends this year, because there were some race weekends where my boss just wouldn’t let me go. That isn’t half enough.

It takes years for a class to take off. All BMW CR has to do is buy a plastic trophy and some Spec E30 guys will show up the following month. Maybe not a dozen, but I bet more SpecE30’s show up then Stock cars show up.

#10

Ranger wrote:

[quote]
If my car was competitive in KP I’d run it in BMW CR. Even if a bunch of SpecE30’s showed up for a BMW CR race, I’d show up. I only got to do 5 race weekends this year, because there were some race weekends where my boss just wouldn’t let me go. That isn’t half enough.[/quote]

Wounldn’t you show up anyway, you have already raced with BMW CR. Again show me the people that are going to show up in addition to the ones racing with BMW CR already if they created a seperate class. I feel like you want the change just so you can get some sort of trophy or recognition.

Ranger wrote:

[quote]
It takes years for a class to take off. All BMW CR has to do is buy a plastic trophy and some Spec E30 guys will show up the following month.[/quote]

Who are these people? I’m still failing to see who these racers are that are suddenly going to race BMW CR if a new class is created. Why should they dilute KP? I want to hear from one person that is not running BMW CR that is sidelined because they don’t have a seperate Spec E30 class? Sure its nice to be able to run 2 organizations but you can’t expect them to create a class for you. And sure it would be nice to be able to be competitive in BMW CR. Should they create a Spec 3 class next in addition to Spec E36. That might attract more racers too :silly:

#11

Ranger wrote:

i’ve never recieved a plastic trophy from bmwcca…i have some event plaques that everyone gets at some of the events, some class winner stickers, a class winner medal from o’fest, and some plaques for class championships but a total of zero plastic trophies…

recognizing spec e30 finishers separately from KP seems an awfully lot like creating a separate class for them…

if i give a class winner sticker to the highest finishing spec e30 driver in the feature race (at the events i go to), will you round up some more racers to come to our events? :wink:

#12

Simple solution: Prepared Lite

BMWCCA is already there 'cause there is no such thing as a stock car in that they have to have weld-in cages. Ditch the cat,interior, a/c and allow camber adjustment.Wala, spec e30 can run KLite.

Simon can bring back his M3 and run JLite.Other existing CCA racers in stock classes would likely appreciate the opportunity to ditch items. Ever seen what a melted cat will do to performance? I have.

If you think Lite is a good idea you’ll want to present it to Mike Mills, BMWCCA Competition Director.

I think he’s heard the idea before.

Regards, Robert Patton

#13

Elephant4 wrote:

[quote][b]
Wounldn’t you show up anyway, you have already raced with BMW CR. Again show me the people that are going to show up in addition to the ones racing with BMW CR already if they created a seperate class. I feel like you want the change just so you can get some sort of trophy or recognition.

Ranger wrote:

[quote]
It takes years for a class to take off. All BMW CR has to do is buy a plastic trophy and some Spec E30 guys will show up the following month.[/quote]

Who are these people? I’m still failing to see who these racers are that are suddenly going to race BMW CR if a new class is created. Why should they dilute KP? I want to hear from one person that is not running BMW CR that is sidelined because they don’t have a seperate Spec E30 class? Sure its nice to be able to run 2 organizations but you can’t expect them to create a class for you. And sure it would be nice to be able to be competitive in BMW CR. Should they create a Spec 3 class next in addition to Spec E36. That might attract more racers too :silly:[/quote]

Ok, I give up.

Simon, if you’d ever raced against me you’d know that the idea of me pursuing some sort of trophy or recognition is silly. My goal is to not be last. Usually I can count on someone having a mechanical.

I’m not suggesting that BMW CR “create a class for me”. That’s a “them do a favor for us” flow of obligation. I’m attempting to speak as a BMW CR advocate and suggesting that this would be an easy way to attract more cars to “our” BMW CR races.

I have not done a BMW CR race, even tho I went to their comp school. But I’d be far more likely to do a CR event if there were more SpecE30’s at the event to run against. Usually there are only a couple at the race. But if BMW CR could consistant attract a half dozen or more SpecE30’s then that might be a critical mass such that a decent amount of SpecE30’s were consistantly signing up for CR races.

Should they create a Spec3 class in addition to Spec36? Probably not. But that is still coming at the issue backwards. It’s not a matter of “how can I encourage BMW CR to change their classes such that my car is competitive.” Instead, it is a matter of “How can we of BMW CR get more cars to participate with the least effort.” And I get to say “we of BMW CR” because I have my shiney unused BMW CR Rookie License.

The idea only has to appeal to a handful of guys in each region in order to make it work. It obviously doesn’t appeal to everyone, and that’s ok.

I don’t have a dog in this fight. I’m not attempting to be some strident advocate for the idea. It was just a thought.

#14

Ranger,
Sorry I’m late to the fight.
Please educate me - if I wanted to race BMWCCA now, what would my NASA Spec E30 need, and would I be running against KP cars?
Any idea how different the schedules for the BMW regions are?
Thanks,
-Vic

#15

A couple more comments from another back marker that is just out to have fun.

I built my car for Spec E30.

I might race with CCA if 1) an event happened to fit my budget and schedule. 2) They allowed me to show up and run in KP. I am not too keen to go out of my way to acuire 75 lbs worth of $1 per pound stickers just for the privilege of attending but I can understand the rationale of honoring series sponsors by displaying their sticker. Finally to Ranger’s point 3) there were going to be a couple of other Spec e30 (K-lite) cars they to race with. The lure of a trophy means absolutely nothing to me.

I have run it with PBOC. I just showed up. I was put in a class with E30 M3s, M-coupes, and a couple of other hot rods. They all took off and left me, I had a blast chasing down a 944, spec Miata, and a street 911 with a cage. I ended up winning my class simply because all the maniacs in my class either broke or drove off the track. I had fun. No Trophy.

For me it is all about fun, budget, and convenience in that order.

Don

#16

Ranger wrote:

That wasn’t my intention :). I raced with the BMW Club for 5 years so I’m certainly not against racing with the BMW Club. I’ve got nothing but good things to say about the club and the racers. All I’m saying is that creating a class for Spec E30 will do absolutely nothing except create another class with the BMW club. I don’t think it will intice any extra racers from Spec E30 to race with the BMW club. Those that want the extra events are already doing it and I don’t know of anybody that is not doing it because they can’t be competitive. That is just my opinion I obviously have no factual evidence or basis for this statement. It is just my gut feeling that it is the case. I’m just pointing out that your easy solution probably won’t achieve anything except create another class for the BMW club, dilute KP and piss off regular KP racers and set a precedent that they are willing to create classes for other series. Let the discussion continue B)

#17

victorhall wrote:

[quote]Ranger,
Please educate me - if I wanted to race BMWCCA now, what would my NASA Spec E30 need, and would I be running against KP cars?
Any idea how different the schedules for the BMW regions are?
Thanks,
-Vic[/quote]

You would run in KP, they are allowed cams, shocks, aero, chip, lightweight flywheel, diff, exhaust, brakes and expect to run 225 hoosiers.

the schedule from 2008 is here

http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/Racers/past_events2008.aspx

You would also need all the sponsor decals they require, tire rack banner is the big one and then a bunch of other ones. Not sure if the number board is still required, I think it is?

#18

Are the guys currently in KP any good, or fun to race with? I looked at results from Summit, with the NJ chapter from 2008, and their lap times were not impressive (no idea what the conditions where).
Of course, I am the self-proclaimed Mayor of Summit :wink:

I’m just gathering some info…thanks guys!
-Vic

#19

Vic,

CCA is a great group to run with. Like Simon, I’ve got a good number of friends that race there.

When you take your spec e30 car to their event you can often qualify with the KP (mid-pack) guys, but you can’t race with them. Their straightaway talent will wear you down. The fast KP guys are have the straightaway talent and the cornering talent. There are some fantastic KP racers here in the southeast.

regards, Robert Patton

#20

Seems like the same issue with racing SCCA. A Spec E30 can’t run with front runner ITS cars, but with fields running into the 60’s there are plenty of cars that run around the same laps times as a Spec E30. I race SCCA because traveling to SE NASA events is too expensive right now for me, and the FL region of NASA only has 3 completed Spec E30s and we have not had all three at the same event yet (although 2009 WILL see our might class of 3 several times I’m sure :slight_smile: )

I’d probably switch to BMW CR if there were more events, but Fl SCCA is very active with events almost every month which include both Daytona and Sebring (my home track). The only thing i have to do for racing SCCA is cover my NASA stickers (which I hate).

anyway that’s my 2 cents.