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Vic, that is all assuming that the single tube exhaust makes more power. I don’t recall seeing any dyno work that backed that up, only hearsay. If it’s out there, I’d LOVE to see it. That would make me even happier about buying the new exhaust.
BTW - You’re right, WE front runners need to be looked after too… :dry:
:silly: :woohoo: 
:cheer: :laugh: :blink:
JP - typically front runners means those on the podium consistently.
You must really have high hopes for that new engine or your stretching the definition to include top 20 finishes.
AJ - Agreed - I’d love to see some dynos on the single tube setup…I’d also love to see Duke University burn to the ground, but neither is going to happen any time soon. I do think the single tuber makes more power.
-Vic
Go TERPS! Our slogan for 2008 is “We haven’t lost to any D2 teams!!”
I plan on doing back to back dynos once I pick up the new exhaust for sh!its and giggles. I “think” it makes more power as well.
victorhall wrote:
Vic, it would appear you have suffered a minor setback on your new years resolution. Although, I happen to agree.
Carter wrote:
[quote]Spec E30 Exhaust Announcement
Order info - Contact Paul Poore pepco2@verizon.net - Paul prefers email for now but I will post his phone number in the next couple of weeks. He is moving to a new shop and we don’t want to post the old number, and then the new number.
Cost - $175.00 plus shipping to your location. He could have used cheaper materials, crimped/non-mandrel bent tubes, and cheap clamps but we decided that a better design and durable parts are better than saving $15.00 on the price.
Future cost - As anyone involved in building materials knows, these materials are going up in price, regularly. Therefore, the price will probably go up some by the late spring/early summer. It won’t go up more than a few dollars but it will probably happen.
Availability - He has 20 sets right now and should be able to ship orders next week. We appreciate the current drivers waiting for the new car builders, who have no exhaust. And you have until June to get it on the car.
Carter[/quote]
Bringing this thread back to the top for those having trouble finding it.
It might be a good idea to add the exhaust supplier to our vendors links. While he may not have a website, it maybe nice to have some kind of link to his contact info without having to wade through the murk of all the other posts on this topic.
Gasman wrote:
Not picking on you, Gasman, but this is just one of the critiques I have for this ‘spec exhaust’ melee.
Regardless of the decision, the details have been rather haphazardly shotgunned into the forums leaving us all wondering and frustrated. I dare not search for a real answer because it will be an embarrassing number greater than 1 for the number of threads on the subject.
Then there was the decision itself. When I first recall the subject coming up I distinctly remember Carter answering a question in the affirmative that the spec system would be street legal (and quoted him in one of those umpteen threads). This didn’t happen and has dictated a path for SpecE30 I for one cannot follow. I was convinced this decision was to keep RacerX from dumping tons of money into an exhaust everyone else would have to copy to keep up with (a la Spec Miata). Instead, to keep up in SpecE30 I’ll have to buy a truck and a trailer… and a new house to park these vehicles.
And here’s the rub; my car needs a new exhaust anyway! It’s got holes and is leaking. Alone, it will cost me more to replace it with an environmentally sound stock system. But to compete, the spec system will cost far more in committing the car to polluting, off-road use only. Doesn’t it makes more sense for me to prune myself off the rosters before I even get started? If the rules were being kept simple to help grow the series, I’m not convinced this one has furthered that cause.
As for who gets what of the (secondhand information) limited number of systems that are available… money talks. Isn’t that most fair? Were I the lucky sole source supplier of these systems for you guys, it’d be first come first served. No one is going to tell me who I have to sell to nor in what order and I sincerely doubt this fellow will take that either.
I sincerely hope the series learns from this experience. The long term effects on new entries seems to have been missed completely in the name of a low cost, sole source. Despite this, the information about the system grapevined its way through to those who needed it most while the published rules still say the details are forthcoming. I speak as one on the outside looking in only to see more and more obstacles to getting through the door.
Sco,
I personally don’t disagree with several of your points but some clarifications are in order.
Regarding street legality, the rules allow for either the new spec exhaust or the use of a stock (equivalent) exhaust for those cars driven to the track so I’m not sure why you think you need a truck, trailer and new house. Alternatively, you could put a stock exhaust back on the vehicle whenever you need to have an emissions check done (every two years?). Regarding polluting, I have heard of some passing the emissions checks without a cat in place, but many places also do a visual check for the cat (or what passes for a cat).
Creating a sole source wasn’t a goal of the exhaust spec’ing process. It is just a current fact that may change in the future if the vendor isn’t up to snuff.
There isn’t an allocation process in place - people who don’t need them right away have just been asked politely to delay placing their order.
Building a race car does have its trials and tribulations - but it makes you a better person in the end
thanks,
bruce
Note that the Spec E30 Regulations were just updated (Jan 22, v10) with the exhaust info. I’ll update my comparison to last year’s rules and post.
[quote]9.3.4. Exhaust System
9.3.4.1. Any Spec E30 racecar towed to any competition event shall use a spec exhaust.
9.3.4.1.1. The spec exhaust system must be purchased from the Spec E30 approved
supplier (Paul Poore pepco2@verizon.net) and may not be modified in any way. The
following parts must be used and assembled as designed by the manufacturer.
1- PPS30101 Forward Section with Collector
2- PPS30102 Middle Section
3- PPS30103 Muffler/Tailpipe Assembly
4- PPS30104 49.5 mm Clamp (2 req. - optional)
5- PPS30105 59.5 mm Clamp (2 req. - optional)
9.3.4.1.2. The spec exhaust system components must be either welded or clamped
together after all slip joints are fully seated.
9.3.4.1.3. The spec exhaust will be available after January 21, 2008 and is required on June
1, 2008.
9.3.4.2. Any Spec E30 car that is driven on public highways, to a competition event, must use
either the Spec E30 spec exhaust or a fully functioning OEM or OEM equivalent exhaust
system that may not be modified in any way.
9.3.4.3 Original factory installed exhaust heat shields may be removed.[/quote]
I was careful to say “to keep up” when posting my options. I admit I harbor a hope for dyno plots that show the spec system makes less power. 
For the life of me I cannot understand, much less been offered a rationale for an exhaust without a cat. Why wasn’t an oem system, with a cat, made the “spec” instead? If the rule was to level the playing field, it hasn’t. The net effect of this rule is a split in the regional fields; those cars with the spec exhaust and those with a clean, street legal system. I dare assert it is not too late to make -that- the rule instead; cleaner cars that both new and current participants can easily build.
I’m stuck now. It was May when I read the spec system would be street legal. That factor helped convince me to buy my donor a month later in June. Instead, it looks like I’ll be building a helluva fun HPDE car and someone else’s SpecE30; someone with a truck and trailer who can afford to race with you guys. 
And though I appreciate the alternative solutions, I cannot agree. Gutting the cat adds up to breaking the law where I live (you too, I’d bet). Hoping to carry a spec system to a race and swapping it on before practice/qualifying could work but would get old very fast. The rules are now clear that the spec system cannot be modified so trying to make the swap easier with a test pipe for a cat when needed is out too. I’ve tried to think of every angle I can fit… but I keep coming up with no hope of competing.
And fwiw, the forum auto-logged me out twice trying to post this. Just an example of how seriously this has impacted my build.
Scotaku, Could we please move on? Trust me, anything you have to offer is not going to change anything. Lets go have fun, anyone can afford to spend $175 on a new exhaust, heck its half the cost of one weekend. How much could a citation for a loud muffler cost, assuming you got one?
Scotaku,
Are you competing yet, or just doing HPDE? If you aren’t competing, the exhaust system doesn’t matter. My car has some cheap muffler from O’Reily Auto Parts, but it will get me by for the next year until I get a competition license. You may already have that and it doesn’t matter, I just thought I’d mention it.
John
Really?? Come on now. When I was getting ready to race NOTHING was going to keep me from getting out there. Not my wife, work, debt, anything!
If you are really thinking of not racing simply because you’ll have to run a stock exhaust to remain street legal, then you aren’t as committed to racing as you think you are.
Run a stock system, get it from a junkyard. I promise you, for the first few years you’ll be nowhere near the front no matter what exhaust you’ve got bolted up!
Sco,
I’m not getting why you think race cars need a cat. If the car is running rich at all (maybe due to lots of WOT usage), the cat is probably non-functional anyway from an emissions standpoint. As I noted, I have heard of people passing emissions without a cat, so the difference it provides doesn’t sound significant. I wasn’t suggesting a gutted cat, that is not legal nowadays. I was only advocating swapping back to the stock system for the every-two-year emission check. Driving one spec e30 car to the track without a cat is not going to make any difference in our current environment, no matter what Gore spouts.
It just doesn’t make sense that an exhaust is making the difference between you running spec e30 or not…
bruce
Sco,
Let me pile on here…
You can always run for fun and not for points.
So let it go. Lets move on and come to grips with it… Just suck it up.
If you are going to race? You are going to have to get a trailer at some point :dry: Trust me…
scottmc wrote:
[quote]
If you are going to race? You are going to have to get a trailer at some point :dry: Trust me…[/quote]
+1 for trailering. This is a lesson that is inevitably learned at a track 7hrs from home.
+2 for trailering.
I have towed home twice from HPDE. First time, hefty tow bill. Second time, AAA Gold picked up most of the tab. Still a PITA.