Some pre-season work on GRM project Spec E30

#81

I’m not sure where the weight is, but Craig’s car is an '87 (I believe) and mine is a '90.

I’m at 2758 with maybe a gallon fuel in the tank. I think Craig is making weight easily (he can chime in).

I’d also say that neither of us has resorted to drastic weight loss measures (both still have door panels and windows), nor have added extensive ballast.

I agree if the bumpers are 50lbs on the ends, I don’t want them. Except when its time to use the chorme horn.

My only point is to illustrate that either car can get to the weight. In my opinion without a crazy amount of work, well that and to say “chome horn”…

#82

You know what i think of all this?

Blah Bla blah… let’s race :wink:

And once we get the whole spare tire thing addressed… who wantes to be the first with the lead lined coolsuit cooler?

#83

Haha, you mean the 150 gallon Coleman homemade cooler is illegal?

#84

dmwhite wrote:

[quote]GRMScott wrote:

yep…another item not specifically allowed by the rules…[/quote]

7.6.1. All chassis/structural repairs, if performed, shall be in concurrence with factory procedures, specifications, and dimensions.

The shop manual shows this:

While not exactly a chassis/structural repair, it’s pretty close…:wink:

Steve D.

#85

Dammit! I just realized, if I’d put 50 pounds of air pressure in the tires this would all be moot. Stupid me…

IndyJim, do you still have the trunk sound insulation?

#86

Nope. That came out first thing. It was easy so I removed it.

I’m probably the only person with a fuel cell though. That sits in my spare tire well.

(stock tank is gone)

But I made weight before that change too.

#87

You can use rear ride height too by changing to alternate thickness spring pads. On my car I got to this weird zone where more rear bar increased wheel spin and my pressures were too far off. I raised the rear and softened the bar for a happy medium with normal pressures.

Back to the spare tire bit. I’ve seen a few cars with both a spare and lead, namely mine. Technically if we are calling this tire ballast he cannot run lead. The way I read the wording defining ballast and it’s placement it’s either lead or/‘alternatively’ a spare tire. Nowhere in the rules does it say he HAS to remove the spare tire in the first place. This would be akin to leaving in a stock passenger seat in the car. As I prepped my car I spent an afternoon playing with old brake rotors, lead, seats, tires and other heavy objects on the car. I moved weight around until the car was perfect with my expected fuel load. The overall balance of the car isn’t going to change much with mounting piddy weight in the trunk. It takes ALOT of mass to do this. I elected to centrally mount most of my weight using fuel weight and lead as my primary ballast. I figured since I couldn’t move the bias greatly I’d go with low PMOI.

I don’t think changing the min weight would be ideal as a knee jerk reaction. The problem is people built cars based on 2750 weight and it may be tough for them to adapt.

#88

What is causing tinkering is the allowable placement of the weight, not the weight limit itself. This could get a lot easier if we could just add weight where we need to (while being safe) in order to make minimum 2750. The early cars are lighter but at the ends we’re heavier - adding more weight in the spare is a poor option.

Carter, if you’re reading please consider re-wording the rule around the rear interior side panels or give us an official perspective on the intent. I believe most of us read that to mean they are not required, but the debate in Norcal is a waste of valuable time. If they are required let us know so we can get them in.

#89

I believe we’ve been through the side panel thing before. It’s fine to ditch them. Y’all in CA need to quit deabating and finish building so you can race.:stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve got big-ass bumpers and I’m light, without any effort whatsoever. ALL my sound deadening is present.

Sasha

#90

I’m ~215lbs (probably one of the heavier monkeys, drivers), drive an early car with no sound deadening, xbrace door bars, full electric windows, door cards. I run with 50lbs of lead and a spare, or 25lbs of ballast a spare and a cool shirt. I usually come in around 2750-2800 depending on fuel load and wheels used.

There are so many options on how to add/remove non ballast weight that there is no real reason to adjust the minimum weight. Just build the cars and get creative within the ruleset.

Metal bumpers don’t weigh 50lbs more than plastics, hardware included. Don’t forget that later models have more rear valence and more rear quarter sheet metal. Bottom line, the cars are even enough, the results prove it.

We’re one “Racer X” with a real check book away from finding the real holes in the rules anyway.

GRM - Keep up the good work. The best way to close the loopholes is to point them out as you did. I’m just glad it was a low cost way to do so.

#91

Heh, the loopholes are in the drivetrain. Talk to a Spec Miata guy.

#92

Here is my solution…

Car light, eat lots of cheese the week before the race along with regular diet

Car heavy, turbo lax!

Works for me.

Al

gotta weigh my car at the track!

#93

155MPH wrote:

Then it’s a good thing David keeps renting your car instead of building one!:laugh:

Sasha

#94

While the spare tire rule is vague, it will be rewritten to be more clear. And I do think it’s good to discuss these issues.

Also, I want everyone to know an important part of the program. While Spec E30 is an individual organization (and we are taking steps to trademark the name for our protection), we race at NASA events. Therefore, each NASA region is supposed to have a designated Compliance Director and that Director enforces the rules of every series that races at NASA events, including Spec E30. We provide the rules - that must be approved by NASA for use at NASA events - and they enforce them. Several times, NASA National officials have told me to “Let NASA take the heat; that’s what we get paid for.”

Plus, it’s impossible for me to attend every race weekend and I, and NASA, want the rules to be enforced in the same way. Yes, people are involved so we won’t get the exact same enforcement but it’s the best way to manage rules enforcement. And per NASA National, each region is required to enforce the NASA National approved rules set from each series.

Therefore, if anyone thinks that a car, or a racer’s driving, is illegal, you can protest that car or driver. Just make sure you have a copy of the CCR and you know the protest procedures. And protests shouldn’t be taken personally.

I look forward to hearing about the Roebling weekend. Not just because of the spare tire situation but because of the expected high car count.

Carter

#95

robweenerpi wrote:

You can use rear ride height too by changing to alternate thickness spring pads.[/quote]

9.3.8.7.2. Spring pads may be removed.

This one is clear. Spring pads can be removed but it doesn’t say anything about alternate sizes.

Carter

#96

Elephant4 wrote:

[quote]drumbeater wrote:

[quote]Man, I hope you guys don’t make me remove that trunk mat. It looks like a real PIA to get out.

JOhn[/quote]

It’s a piece of cake, heat gun and scraper and it will come out in no time.[/quote]
Totally off topic but I saw this reply on or about pg 6. Actually in my experience the best two ways to remove the trunk tar is

a: open the trunk and let it roast in the hot sun for a couple hours, the mat will pull right out

b: the fun way. Get a few pounds of dry ice. Mash it up into small pebble size pieces. Spread all over trunk tar. Lay towels over dry ice. Let sit for 20min. Take towels off and whack the tar with a mallet. The trunk tar will shatter into hard pieces and leave no residue.

I’ve done this on the 85eta and the current 89i

Here’s an old thread of mine on R3V that shows the burn (i still have a scar) from heat gun work, vs the dry ice method seen on the second page of the thread

#97

Carter, Thank you for clarifying the protest process, I hope Tom has the forms handy.

#98

Dang this is a long thread… Scott, when I ran a little light at Mid O I solved it by installing a full tool tray, jack, lug wrench, live possum, power anteanna, heavy battery. That looked like a lot of work to build that spare.

See ya at RR

Al

#99

Actually, it only took an hour or so of work, and since it’s editorially interesting/amusing/might lead to some rule changes regarding ballast it was well worth it. The trip to the junkyard bore other fruit; Per found a set of four Shelby Minilite-style wheels for his Saab rally car, too.

The Spec E30 is loaded up on the trailer, I’m really excited about the race this weekend. Hopefully all these off-season fuel tank and brake fixes will have paid off with a car that can run with at least some of the pack. Fingers crossed! My fiancee is joining me for the weekend, and David and his wife Michelle will be joining us on Saturday in David’s HPDE B16-powered CRX. We’ll have tons of GRM stickers for anyone who doesn’t have 'em already, of course, and we’ll get getting lots of photos and such.

Very much looking forward to it!

#100

3 stock thicknesses (5, 7.5 and 10mm) are listed for the e30, so I don’t see how we can say that any one of them is not allowed.

Carter wrote:

[quote]robweenerpi wrote:

You can use rear ride height too by changing to alternate thickness spring pads.[/quote]

9.3.8.7.2. Spring pads may be removed.

This one is clear. Spring pads can be removed but it doesn’t say anything about alternate sizes.

Carter[/quote]