Racing crash video, your feedback wanted please.

#41

[quote=“Fooshe” post=57353]IMHO, the Shoe is mostly right in his posting…however, I think the posting of the video is a good exercise in judgement. Perhaps something from the SE30 racers incident bag was not the best choice to use, but it contains an excellent lesson to be learned.

As for fault, I say they both contributed to the accident. Here is what I can see…

The white/black car on the left saw the white/white car on his right and squeezed him so it was not an easy pass. From the looks of things, he gave him 1 1/2 to 1/3/4 car width well before the pit wall came into play. However, if you look at the shadows of the cars, the white/white car was dead even with the white/black car just before they reach the cones, which means he had presented himself and had the corner slightly before that. Here is where things go wrong. The white/black car should have lifted and gave the other car the corner. Granted, the white/white car made a poor choice to pass in that corner, but the white/white car did get mirror to mirror with him far enough before the corner that the driver of the white/black car could have given the corner up in time.

What I see next is the white/white car start to lean into the white/black car and try to nudge them both to the left since the white/white car is now becomeing aware that making the turn at that speed will be a tough one to pull off with the white/black car right next to him. But when the the white/black car sees the the white/white car pulling ahead and leaning big time on him (you can see the white/black cars front tires are turning to fight that force the from the passing car) coupled with the dark car to his left, he probably got out of the throttle (note how fast his brake lights come on seeing what is about to happen). That is when the white/white car’s rear bumper cleared the white/black car’s front bumper and he had nothing to lean on. Watch the white/white car’s front tires when he clears the white/black car, they are already correcting the car’s oversteer indications. If I was speculating, the driver of the white/black car got out of it to help the other car snap out of line quickly and allow him to collect the dark car and not him.

Once that happens, the dark car on the far left is just driving on line and the white/white car snaps right into him and collects them both. clearly not the driver of the dark car’s fault.

Long story short, passer bought this one as soon as the red mist took over and he committed to a very low percentage pass. True, the passee could have been more “courteous,” but I don’t know that he was the determining factor as he gave the passing car racing room. Not to mention that if he is racing for position, he did make it clear he was not going to make it easy for the other driver and if the other driver wanted to make a low percentage pass, that is a choice he would have to make. turns out he did and it was a bad one.

The leasson here is that situational awareness was not exercised; that much is clear. It also gives all racers a chance to walk in the shoes of the steward for a moment and hopefully see that sometimes their job is not an easy one.

As the Shoe said, I feel bad for both of them. I do hope they both walked away uninjured and wrinkled body work is the worst that happened.

just my .02[/quote]
This Fooshe guy has made a miserable choice for a username and a fine analysis of the incident.

#42

Ok wait…thank you…I think…? What’s wrong with my user name? It should be foosh. My name is Steve, so my name morphed into a nickname in high school that was Stefoosh, from some lame thrifties drug store commercial. (don’t blame me, I didn’t choose it!) So, over the years, it got shortened to Foosh. I had to choose Fooshe (silent e) since the other name was taken.

Ah hell, screw it…it is a lousy choice; sorry, miserable choice. :huh:

Hey, if you can’t laugh at yourself…

#43

[quote=“Fooshe” post=57358]Ok wait…thank you…I think…? What’s wrong with my user name? It should be foosh. My name is Steve, so my name morphed into a nickname in high school that was Stefoosh, from some lame thrifties drug store commercial. (don’t blame me, I didn’t choose it!) So, over the years, it got shortened to Foosh. I had to choose Fooshe (silent e) since the other name was taken.

Ah hell, screw it…it is a lousy choice; sorry, miserable choice. :huh:

Hey, if you can’t laugh at yourself…[/quote]
You were hosed on this one because it’s an inside joke.

There used to be a SE region racer with a last name very similar to your username. Same first name too. He’s not raced with us in a couple yrs. Perfectly nice guy in person, but on the forums he was always angry. His made a brief appearance on the forum a year ago, made everyone angry as hell and then disappeared again.

#44

Oh…well that sucks. Regardless, I think I got hosed even without that story. Everyone always reads it and says Foosh-e (like “fooshy” would be said) Pain in the ass explaining all that.

Ok, I finally figured it out…was he is a grey #4 car with the name Foushee?

#45

[quote=“jlucas” post=57354]I’m not convinced the car in front knew he was being overtaken on the right, if you look at his line independent of the incident it just looks like’s trying to take the shortest distance from his current position.

Also some of you guys interpreting him turning into the passer have clearly never been mid turn and touched as you don’t have normal steering control.[/quote]

I thought about what you said and watched the video a handful more times. I have to respectfully disagree and here is why. Look at the position of the passing car and the vector the car being passed takes. He is driving in almost a straight line to the wall. As the passing car gets to his window, you can see the car make a fairly defined change of direction. Now yes, that could be because the passing car surprised him or startled him. However, if you look at the angle he is taking, he is driving right into the mid-point of the wall and he would have to toss the car around where the wall changes direction; which makes no sense at all.

What I and speculating happened is that he took a line that would make most drivers lift and tuck in behind him as he would be taking away a smooth line to transition to the straight. I can only guess that he didn’t think the passing car would actually try to force the issue due to such a low percentage type pass it would be. However, once he did see the passing car right next to him, you then see the passing car lean into him and when that happened, he was along for the ride and most likely saw the dark car to his left and lifted to try to avoid contact. Again, look at the timing of his brake lights in relation to the passing car releasing from being locked up with him…it is at the same time the passing car turns his wheels to the right and is how he avoided contact with the dark car, forcing the passing car into him.

In either case, it really is proving the saying, “To finish first, first you must finish.”

#46

Breaking the rule since I know all involved but I just wish I could explain why this is so funny.

#47

I’m just curious, what was the race director’s ruling on this fiasco?

Can anyone share the details and logic behind the outcome?

#48

[quote=“Fooshe” post=58177]I’m just curious, what was the race director’s ruling on this fiasco?

Can anyone share the details and logic behind the outcome?[/quote]
The video was from Pro3, an E30 series based in the Pacific NW. As such you’d have to hit up one of the forums where they hang out.

#49

Thanks for the comments everyone! It has been interesting seeing your thoughts.

The driver passing on the right got a one lap penalty and a fine for avoidable contact. One thing to keep in mind in ICSCC is that both drivers share equal responsability for a safe pass, not just the driver passing.

Do you feel both drivers worked together to create a safe passing situtation if you knew the driver being passed knew the other car was coming through?

#50

TC,

This is a pretty dead horse but I’ll reply anyway in the name of safety.

My answer to this question “Do you feel both drivers worked together to create a safe passing situtation if you knew the driver being passed knew the other car was coming through?” is No.

As I said before, it appears to me (acknowledging that I was not there, have a very limited view, and do not know the guys involved) is that guy being passed on the right did not like the idea. Again it appears that he purposely made it difficult (by apparently not breathing the throttle soon enough) for the passing driver.

It looks like avoidable contact on both driver’s part and in my opinion all drivers(including the driver of the dark car who was a victim) be put on 13/13 probation.

Bottom line, I think that any intentional contact (except maybe bump drafting) in amatuer racing is unsportsmanike, unsafe, and the drivers should be penalized with the 13/13 rule.

Don

#51

[quote=“donstevens” post=58268]TC,

This is a pretty dead horse but I’ll reply anyway in the name of safety.

My answer to this question “Do you feel both drivers worked together to create a safe passing situtation if you knew the driver being passed knew the other car was coming through?” is No.

As I said before, it appears to me (acknowledging that I was not there, have a very limited view, and do not know the guys involved) is that guy being passed on the right did not like the idea. Again it appears that he purposely made it difficult (by apparently not breathing the throttle soon enough) for the passing driver.

It looks like avoidable contact on both driver’s part and in my opinion all drivers(including the driver of the dark car who was a victim) be put on 13/13 probation.

Bottom line, I think that any intentional contact (except maybe bump drafting) in amatuer racing is unsportsmanike, unsafe, and the drivers should be penalized with the 13/13 rule.

Don[/quote]

Don,

I see your point, but you make a pretty controvertial/bold statement in saying “… in my opinion all drivers(including the driver of the dark car who was a victim) be put on 13/13 probation.”

I am very interested to hear you reasoning for saying that. It never crossed my mind that the dark car should also be penalized. Could you help me understand your reasoning for saying that?

Steve

#52

[quote=“Fooshe” post=58269][quote=“donstevens” post=58268]TC,

Don,

I see your point, but you make a pretty controvertial/bold statement in saying “… in my opinion all drivers(including the driver of the dark car who was a victim) be put on 13/13 probation.”

I am very interested to hear you reasoning for saying that. It never crossed my mind that the dark car should also be penalized. Could you help me understand your reasoning for saying that?

Steve[/quote]

Yeah, maybe putting an apprently innocent victim on probation is a bit harsh.

My thought however, in the name of safety, is that any car to car contact in amatuer racing should be punishable by probation regardless of intent or circumstances. Is this too simple? Maybe, but there are so many variables that we (or local officials) cannot see or control, I’d rather err in the name of safety than take any chances.

Example scenario? What if, the guy in the dark car actually caused this accident? How? We don’t know. For all we know that guy bumped his way past both of these white cars in the laps previous to this incident. Maybe the two guys in the white cars were after that guy? We just don’t know. However, if all of them get probation for car to car contact, all will be more careful in the next 13 months. That is all I am saying.

Don

Don