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Here is video of an incident that happened last weekend. I would like your unbiased opinion of what happened. Please, if you know the drivers involved, do not comment. I am not trying to blame anyone, I would just like your opinion of what happened and the opinions of experienced racers that are not involved in our series is what I am looking for.
Some background on this incident. This is the opening lap of a restart on the front straight before the start/finish line.
Thanks for looking!
a first look it appears the inside white car caused the whole thing and took out an innocent bystander. but after a few looks I think the other white car may have squeezed him out and not left racing room thinking he would back off which he didnt. he clearly had a killer run on the other car and the outside (surviving)white car should have left him racing room. That could have been really ugly if he tagged that opening in the wall.
Andrew Z
Drive-gear.com
Wow…“the car making the pass is responsible for making a safe pass”. That said, all the blame should rest on the passing white car. I suspect the other white car, on left, was unaware of the pass and “could” have given room thus preventing the incident. However, that is total assumption…bad situational awareness on white car on left. Chuck
+1
Passer made a gutsy move with the attempt to pass next to the wall. He made a bad assumption that the passee was going to make it easy on him. Passee didn’t change his line at all, probably as Chuck said he didn’t see the situation develop. Passer probably had enough room to make it, hard to tell for certain from the camera angle. Therefore maybe the issues of what the passee was aware of, or any requirement on him to give the passer more “racing room” once passer had earned it, is secondary.
Then passer made an aggressive move to the left because the wall coming up worried him. Hard to be sympathetic to the passer because he put himself in that position. And that hard move was what caused the whole thing.
Like Chuck said, the passer is responsible for making a safe pass. The burden is high when attempting to call a passee complicit in an incident.
+2. Its a racing incident.[/quote]
A lot of folks use the phrase “racing incident” to mean “no ones fault”. I submit that “racing incident” ought to mean “passer’s fault”.
The white/black bumper car definitely knew the white/white bumper was coming. He squeezed him to the wall on purpose. The racing line is clearly along the left side of the track (as evidenced by the camera car’s move right to pass). The passer failed to yield, the passee failed to lift once contact started, and since the passer had momentum his car got far enough forward that the passee’s continued input on the wheel turned the passer into the dark colored car (which was IMHO the only one who lacked situational awareness - had he noticed the head of steam the passer had, he could have easily stayed further left and given the two white cars a bit more room to sort each other out).
Reading between the lines, the passer screwed himself or got screwed before the restart and was determined to make up some positions when the green dropped. Red mist for sure.
The passer is someone I would never want to share a track with. The passee isn’t much better. If you are going to use your “one move” to impede someone’s progress, make it good and make it work. Don’t leave them any doubt about what you intend to do. His half-assed attempt to push the passer over to the wall never had a chance given the passing car’s closing speed (from hanging back on the restart and jumping the green if I had to guess).
But I could be wrong…
PS - E30s at 2650 lbs with coilovers and 20mm wider contact patches look like a lot of fun!!!:woohoo:
I agree with the definition of “racing incident” to mean no ones fault. I agree that it is the passer’s responsibility to make a clean pass and thus is his fault in this case. He could have seen he was getting squeezed and hit the brakes instead of trying to dart to the left taking out an innocent car.
I certainly do not agree with a “racing incident”. Were I a steward, as a minimum, both would get a talking to, and the passer would get probation. Chuck
[quote=“cwbaader” post=57223]I certainly do not agree with a “racing incident”. Were I a steward, as a minimum, both would get a talking to, and the passer would get probation. Chuck[/quote]I agree 100%.
PS - Somebody write this down. :laugh:
PPS - I define “racing incident” as both driver’s fault. I define “meteor hitting the racetrack” as no one’s fault.
Look closely at the vid as the white car hits the dark car. I was wrong about the cause of the wreck being the two white cars connecting. The contact between the white cars was no big deal. All 3 cars were entirely under control after the two white cars connected.
After white on white the passee braked, this allowed white passer to get past white passee with no overlap. Nothing white passee did matters. The problem didn’t start until after white on white.
After white passer got beyond passee, white passer swung left and broadsided the dark car. The dark car was on line when this happened. Look at how much available track there was to the right of white passer. The white passer had at least a car width on his right so swinging so far left was unnecessary. From the perspective of the dark car, the white passer would have appeared out of nowhere and then swerved into him. The dark car drove predictably and the white passwer didn’t. That’s how the white passer caused the crash.
[quote=“Ranger” post=57226]Look closely at the vid as the white car hits the dark car. I was wrong about the cause of the wreck being the two white cars connecting. The contact between the white cars was no big deal. All 3 cars were entirely under control after the two white cars connected. [/quote]:blink: There is tire smoke between the two white cars until the last moment before the impact with the dark car (contact ended when the passee lifted when he saw the dark car, it appears).
[quote]After white passer got beyond passee, white passer swung left and broadsided the dark car. The dark car was on line when this happened. Look at how much available track there was to the right of white passer. The white passer had at least a car width on his right so swinging so far left was unnecessary.[/quote]I still think the white passer was wiggling from the contact with the other white car (contact that was 100% the passer’s fault, but could have been avoided by the passee moving left to let the guy through).
[quote]That’s how the white passer caused the crash.[/quote]The white passer bears a lot of the responsibility, but I think it is a d!ck move to impede someone who has that much speed on you on a (relatively) straight part of the track where the passer is in no way going to slow the passee in the next turn. Last lap? Absolutely try to impede like that. I don’t think this was on the last lap.
I disagree. Sure, it was unfriendly for the white passee to limit the amount of room for the white passer, but that didn’t cause the crash. The white passer moved left into the dark car for no reason at all. The white passer had already passed the white passee, and the white passer was in no danger of touching the wall on his right. The white passer moved left and surprised the dark car.
It’s also worth noting that the dark car seems to have had half a car length on the white passer.
I’m pretty sure the wall was the reason.[/quote]
Look closely at how much room passer white had on his right when he moved left and took out the dark car.
I could be completely wrong, but it looks to me like the white passer moved into and had contact with the white passee. That could have resulted in an initial move to the right that was checked and a move started to the left when the passer saw the approaching wall The move to the left might have been If the move too the left was an over reaction it may have been the cause of the contat with the dar car and the resultant spin.
It looks to me like the passer, once his L rear contacted the passee, probably had a little too much wheel input to the left because his car wasn’t responding to a little left input and the wall was approaching. Once his car cleared the passee, it had quick little jump left then all of the chaos.
I do think that the passer made a douche move and the passee could have helped by not squeezing. I’m new to this and would never try something like that because I’m not at that aggressive stage (yet). I feel sorry for the black car, seems like an innocent victim.
Jason
I am by no means the most experienced racer here but I am going to put my 2 cents in. There were mistakes made by both white cars. First off its a restart so why in the hell would the passee not know the other car is there? Every start and restart I have been in everyone is checking their mirrors because they are expecting to see something or someone in them. Unless you are in last. So I would think that the passee saw the passer coming. Next at 5 sec. into the video the two cars are side by side and have yet to make contact are reach the wall. The passer does make a risky ill advised move to the outside. So when they are SbS and the wall is coming up the passee could have moved left a little and givin him room and the incedent would have been avoided OR the passer could have hit the brakes and tucked back in behind the passee. But both recognized this and niether one make any type of action. At 7 sec into the video the passer has alrady completed the pass and moved left in front of passee. I think is due to the contact puched him right towards the wall and he over corrected a little to much and when he got some grip he went more left then he planned. Once he started moving left he couldn’t react quick enough to stop it and hits the bystandard car. I think even if the other bystandard car was not there to hit he still loses the back end and spins off to the right.