Penalties for rough driving

#1

All:

Because of some rough driving (and expensive) incidents last year, all three NASA Mid Atlantic Autobahn series administrators (GTS Challenge, 944 Cup, and Spec E30) agreed that, starting last year and continuing into this year, we race under a modified 13/13 rule. Under this rule, the administrators are given discretion to issue penalties for metal-to-metal incidents. NASA has agreed to this program and supports the Autobahn Group Administrators.

Clearly, there were a few avoidable metal-to-metal incidents at Summit Point, committed by drivers who were clearly at fault and penalties will be issued to the offending drivers.

Last year, I made it clear that penalties will be posted on this site so all can see what happens when drivers either cannot, or choose not, to keep their cars under control and hit other drivers in the Autobahn group, be they Spec E30 drivers or not.

  1. A non Spec E30 driver crashed into Spec E30 driver Scott Ferguson’s car, resulting in significant damage. I am currently in the process of making sure this driver is suspended for the next 3 race weekends and he is placed on probation for the next 13 months.

  2. Vic Hall made avoidable contact with Chris Cobetto’s car in turn one, causing damage to the left rear quarter panel. As a result, Vic loses NASA Mid Atlantic Championship Points for that race, but keeps his finishing position. Drivers finishing behind Vic do not move ahead one position. Also, Vic will be suspended from the track for the remainder of any Mid Atlantic or National Championship race weekend this season if he is found to be at fault in any metal-to-metal incidents, in any session, at any NASA Mid Atlantic event. Because of past metal-to-metal incidents, if Vic is found to be at fault in a metal-to-metal incident with any Autobahn car in the Mid Atlantic Region, he will also be suspended from all additional races this season in the Mid Atlantic Region and from the NASA National Championship races. He will also lose any Mid Atlantic or Championship points during that weekend.

  3. Mike Davidson made avoidable contact with Chris Cobetto’s car in Sunday’s race. As a result, Mike loses Mid Atlantic Championship Points for that race, but keeps his finishing position and drivers finishing behind Mike do not move ahead one position. Mike is also placed on probation for 3 months. Under this probation, if Mike is found to be at fault in any metal-to-metal incidents, in any session, at any NASA Mid Atlantic or NASA National Championship event, he may be suspended from that race weekend in the Mid Atlantic Region or during the NASA National Championship races. Regardless of whether he is suspended from that weekend, he will definitely lose any Mid Atlantic or Championship points during that weekend.

We are very serious about drivers keeping their cars under control. Yes, sometimes a "racing incident" occurs and placing blame can be difficult. But when a driver is clearly at fault and makes an error that results in damage, penalties will be issued.

Carter Hunt
Spec E30 Series Administrator

#2

Good. I hope Mike Mills will be as vigilant over on the West Coast when we finally get some fields going. If I was interested in going to the junkyard after each race to find fenders, I’d be racing Spec Miata.

#3

This is good to see. Just curious as to why the probabtions only apply to Mid Atlantic and national events. What happens if someone who is on probation in the Mid Atlantic region has an incident in a Southeast region event?

#4

Ouch, I’ll try not to run into myself in the hotly contested NASA SE events. It’s loney out there… MA guys, come on down to CMP this weekend or Road Atlanta in August. Regards, Robert Patton

#5

Hey, seems like you doods are REALLY strict about stuff. Carter, are you like the President of the team or somethin’? Where can I get access to the rules? wanna make sure I know waz up. I know you say to keep the car under control, but when some braindope runs into you and you run into someone else, why should you fault me? I mean, sometimes "s*it" happens… I like to be in a series with rules, but is there like a court system where you can argue if you think you are faulted unfairly"?

#6

I feel that this is fair, although it does stink that I lost points for a 2nd place finish it needs to be done to keep the racing clean and fun. I learned my lesson and now I have to shell out the money to fix our car. :frowning:

Post edited by: miked, at: 2006/07/12 10:59

#7

FemmeFatale wrote:

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

download and read all of this , particularly the part about contact between cars. Sometimes you get hit and knocked into some other car. this is usually not avoidable contact.

#8

FemmeFatale wrote:

I will vote yes

#9

traqrat wrote:

Lance - Mike Mills runs a pretty tight ship in BMW CR, and I wouldn’t think he’d be any different for spec races.

Uh, why does everyone keep running into Chris??

#10

Chris, a big target on his bumper that sez, "hit me?" Steve, be sure not to hit yourself out there in sunny California. Regards, Robert Patton

#11

DMoses wrote:

The penalties only apply to the Mid Atlantic Region and the National Championship races because the incidents occured in the Mid Atlantic Region, and because Mid Atlantic Region racers will be racing at the National Championship races. That is, those who got hit (or were in that race) will feel more comfortable racing with drivers who have made mistakes and have been penalized; not out of revenge but because the offending drivers know to simply be more careful. This is amateur racing of course.

As we grow, and if avoidable contact occurs in other Regions, we will expand this program to other regions and/or nationally to include all Spec E30 races in all NASA Regions. For now, we’ll keep it as it is.

And these decisions are made after careful review of information that is available, and without emotion. I get no pleasure from any of this (please pass the Tums) but do feel that our series will grow quicker and will be more fun for more drivers if we keep the damage to a minimum.

Carter

#12

FemmeFatale wrote:

Femme:

I am the co-founder and Series Administrator of Spec E30. Mike Mills is our other co-founder and is our man on the West Coast.

You can find the Spec E30 Rules on this site. Just click on the "Spec E30 Regulations" button on the left side of the site.

And if some braindope (I like that) runs into me and I run into someone else, you won’t be affected because you were not a part of the incident. Or did I read that wrong?

Now, if someone hits you and you hit me, you will not be found at fault and you will not be penalized. We had a small metal-to-metal between two Spec E30 cars on Saturday but neither was found to be clearly at fault, thus no penalty after I spoke to both drivers at-length about it. Both drivers are satisfied with the result. That was clearly a "racing incident."

Moreover, if drivers on probation get hit, or pushed into another car, they will not suffer additional penalties. Each incident is carefully reviewed.

Regarding a "court system," there is none. And here’s why. A friend recently told me about his SCCA sanctioned racing series where the drivers vote on the spec tire and other aspects of racing…and what a mess it is! No one can agree on anything, the series administrators spend hours and hours trying to get drivers to vote certain ways, backroom deals are made, drivers sulk and complain if they don’t get their way, the drivers avoid each other at the track, and it’s just not the way we want Spec E30 to be.

At Spec E30 races, we all have fun spending time together both on the track and in the paddock. No one has to worry about someone getting "one-up" on them because we all have the same thing. When Vic qualified ahead of me at Summit, it was because he drove a faster lap than I.

Having a strong and reasonable central leadership keeps the politics out and the fun in.

Carter

#13

Carter is SO right about this one.

#14

Hey Vic, you are more then welcome to relocate to CA region…just something to consider. :wink: Now if two cars, with older ‘dive board’ bumpers, touch bumpers, is that still considered metal-to-metal contact, since strictly speaking, rubber covers touched. :woohoo: :whistle:

Joking aside, I absolutely agree with Carter’s handling of the matter, and as Lance said, I hope that on the left coast we will have same criteria and enforcement.

Igor

Post edited by: igor, at: 2006/07/12 19:37

#15

Igor wrote:

[quote]Hey Vic, you are more then welcome to relocate to CA region…just something to consider. :wink: Now if two cars, with older ‘dive board’ bumpers, touch bumpers, is that still considered metal-to-metal contact, since strictly speaking, rubber covers touched. :woohoo: :whistle:

Joking aside, I absolutely agree with Carter’s handling of the matter, and as Lance said, I hope that on the left coast we will have same criteria and enforcement.

Igor<br><br>Post edited by: igor, at: 2006/07/12 19:37[/quote]
The diving boards are better in this instance as they have the shocks that will mitigate any damage should a little bump occur…But Brain is correct in that if everyone is doing what they are supposed to do, the cars should never touch. Mechanical failures aside, contact is some form of driver misjudgement

#16

I am in complete agreement with the Spec E30 policies regarding contact, and anyone who knows me, knows how I feel about getting hit…In order for our series to grow and attract more drivers, the racing must be Clean Fast and Fun. I enjoy the heck out of the Spec E30 racing, mainly because it is so &quot;gentlemanly&quot;. Kudos to Carter for having the spine to keep it that way.

#17

just have to chime in that I fully agree with this also. Now if I can just get back to finishing my car …
cheers,
bruce
NASA Rocky Mountain region

#18

Hmm, before this becomes a great big lovefest…

I am communicating with our series director concerning the incident, and consider the matter still under review. Suffice to say that I don’t agree with Carter’s assessment of the incident.

Carter is doing a magnificent job as an ambassador for Spec E30. We will continue to experience good steady growth, and we will continue to have good close racing.

This is an isolated incident, and I will deal with it privately. I will be happy to share when the matter is resolved.

-Vic
SO #325

#19

it’s not that we were happy with the specific penalties, just that an effort if being made to enforce clean racing.
cheers,
bruce

victorhall wrote:

[quote]Hmm, before this becomes a great big lovefest…

I am communicating with our series director concerning the incident, and consider the matter still under review. Suffice to say that I don’t agree with Carter’s assessment of the incident.

Carter is doing a magnificent job as an ambassador for Spec E30. We will continue to experience good steady growth, and we will continue to have good close racing.

This is an isolated incident, and I will deal with it privately. I will be happy to share when the matter is resolved.

-Vic
SO #325[/quote]

#20

This was sentiment of my post as well (with perhaps unsuccessful humor thrown in)
Igor