 |
|
Hello All,
I have seen a lot of people suggest that you fill 1 qt high or 1/2 a qt high etc.
Here is my Problem, if I run just a few Ounces over the full mark on the dip stick the car starts smoking.
I have heard of others on e30tech have this problem as well. Has anyone else had this problem? Is this a precursor to bigger problem?
FYI:
Compression was 145-150psi on a 200K engine.
Stock Exhaust w/cat is still on the car.
Peakracer.com wrote:
[quote]Hello All,
I have seen a lot of people suggest that you fill 1 qt high or 1/2 a qt high etc.
Here is my Problem, if I run just a few Ounces over the full mark on the dip stick the car starts smoking.
I have heard of others on e30tech have this problem as well. Has anyone else had this problem? Is this a precursor to bigger problem?
FYI:
Compression was 145-150psi on a 200K engine.
Stock Exhaust w/cat is still on the car.[/quote]
Oh God :blink: here comes Ranger.
wait for it… wait…
LOL. I was going to reply to a post Ranger just left in the Broken Rocker thread, but I didn’t want to hijack that thread.
Waiting with Much anticipation:silly:
scottmc wrote:
[quote]
Oh God :blink: here comes Ranger.
wait for it… wait…[/quote]
Of course.
Go a quart high or replace your bearings each year. That’d be my guess.
As to why you are getting black smoke by going a little over-full, I’m struggling on that one.
The only cause of black smoke I know of is oil in the combustion chamber, usually thru valve guides. The only way I can think of for over-full oil to get up there is thru the big vent tube. But that really doesn’t take me anywhere.
What if your dip stick wasn’t accurate? Like maybe the stick was short, or the stick’s tube wasn’t inserted all the way into the block. That could mean 1qt high was really 2 qts high.
What might cause a high pressure in the bottom end of the motor such that oil was thrown up the vent tube?
Hard one. What do the rest of you guys think?
Gasman wrote:
Dang Steve, a bad night? Bring her home flowers and tell her you’re sorry. The couch will get old after a week, even with the dog to keep you company.
Scott, in all seriousness, it makes me crazy for you to take strong positions on issues that are nothing more than unfounded opinion. I’ve raced for three years and never overfilled my crankcase and I’ve never replaced bearings. Your statements can be interpreted as absolute fact to a new guy coming in here thinking you know what you are talking about. If you read the BMW service manual, overfilling a crankcase can actually cause bearing failure…NOT PREVENT IT!
Please stop telling everyone to overfill their crankcase before I have a damn stroke.
drumbeater wrote:
Blue/Gray Smoke. It is oil.
Smokes like a bitch. Then drain a little oil and all is well. I have done it twice.
FYI:oil is 20w50 Full Synthetic
Gasman wrote:
[quote]Scott, in all seriousness, it makes me crazy for you to take strong positions on issues that are nothing more than unfounded opinion. I’ve raced for three years and never overfilled my crankcase and I’ve never replaced bearings. Your statements can be interpreted as absolute fact to a new guy coming in here thinking you know what you are talking about. If you read the BMW service manual, overfilling a crankcase can actually cause bearing failure…NOT PREVENT IT!
Please stop telling everyone to overfill their crankcase before I have a damn stroke.[/quote]
Your point re. me always acting like I know what I’m talking about is a reasonable point. I come across an old post of mine every once and now and think “jeez, what an arrogant shit”.
I am a relative newby. A mechanical engineer that reads voraciously, sure, but those is no substitute for 1st hand experience. Having said that…when there is strong consensus on an issue, based on that reading, and also talking to smart folks, I use strong words. When consensus is lean, I use words that indicate so.
Nothing like obsession to help one learn stuff in a hurry.
I’ve talked to a lot of smart folks on M20 oiling in the past 18months, and I’ve collected OP data on the Traqmate now a couple times. I think that there is strong consensus on 1qt high.
Imagine how I must drive my every day coworkers nuts.
Scott, I’m not trying to bust your chops, I really do like you, but I can’t stand when people come across as knowing more about a subject than should be stated. For someone to make the claim that running 1 quart high is a necessity is over the top for me. I’d like to see you have this debate with M20 engineers and show them how you are accumulating data.
Gasman wrote:
I agree that it’s irksome when folks talk as if they know what they are talking about, when they don’t. I agree that I do that upon occasion, and judging from old posts tend to quickly adopt a irritatingly pompous tone.
However, opinions need to be evaluated on the supporting arguements.
In my opinion running a qt high is the smart thing to do.
It’s common practice in the series. Groups of folks have a way of finding the right solution because wrong solutions tend to be self correcting. It’s not foolproof, of course, but it often works.
Really smart M20 guys recommend it, if one is relying on the OEM oil pan and have no Accusump. For example, Paul Poore, and Jim Rowe @ Metric Mechanic. It was Chuck Taylor and Robert Patton that first told me about it, as my worn rod bearings ticked away on the SpecE30 that I’d had for 6 months.
I’m no Chuck Baader, and I’m certainly no BMW engineer from the '80’s, but I have 2 motors in various stages of disassembly in my garage. A couple extra qts of oil could go in the oil pans just fine without the crank foaming the oil. In fact, if you forget to close a 3qt Accusump, the oil pan has 2.5 extra qts in it at start up. I wouldn’t recommend that folks add 2.5 extra qts, but that’s certainly an indicator.
Your arguement that adding a qt is a bad idea seems to be limited to the survival of your bearings and a reference that BMW recommends against doing it. I’m genuinely happy that your bearings have survived, but that would mean more if we had information from oil analysis and engine tear downs. Like I do.
Re. the OEM recommendation. The committees writing those recommendations have as many lawyers and accountants as engineers. They can not be read uncritically. If that’s the OEM recommendation, we need to ask ourselves “why”. We shouldn’t be doing something just because the OEM recommends it. We should be doing it because it makes sense to us. If the OEM recommendation makes sense to us fine. If it doesn’t, we need to do some research and try to figure out what’s up.
If I was BMW I’d a told people in the user’s manual to not put in too much oil so some knucklehead wouldn’t decide that if 6qts was good, 12qts might be better.
Statements on any technical subject should not be accepted uncritically. Sorry about the 2nd iteration of a double-negative. Folks need to ask questions and see how good the supporting arguements are.
The guys in this community are my friends. Folks have questions and I try to help. Being insufferable doesn’t make me wrong. Only being wrong makes me wrong.
Subject change: Jim, that was damn funny.
Add the extra quart…you are only adding about 3/8" to the oil level and that will certainly not interfere with the crank, and could save your bearings. It’s a crutch. Note, the BMW engineers did not expect their cars to sustain +1g loading or they would have designed an oil pan to accommodate that. Chuck
Gasman wrote:
It’s all about considering the arguements that support an opinion and deciding what arguements you buy and what arguements you don’t.
