New Rules Posted

#1

I just noticed that a new set of rules is posted. I noticed that now there is a definition of Manufacturer for sway bars. So, does IE or Suspension Techniques make 15 sway bars a year? Since things are getting specific how do we verify this? Also, if one of these companies stops making our sway bar are they then illegal? or they only make 14 in one year.

I understand the rules makers are just trying to close a loop hole and prevent custom sway bars but the reality still stands that the ones on the market are not equal.

Anyone else know who makes at least 15, 22mm non adjustable front sway bars for the E30 in a year? Anyone besides the ones mentioned above?

Michael

#2

yes they’ve been up since last Sunday when I noticed them.
I did a diff on the rules and sent Carter several comments because some things don’t look right.
cheers,
bruce

#3

here is the rules changes file I mentioned in the last post.
Don’t get too excited about it yet as Carter is reviewing why some things apparently didn’t get edited correctly.
cheers,
bruce [file name=Spec_E30_2008_vs_2007.pdf size=78588]http://spece30.com/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/files/Spec_E30_2008_vs_2007.pdf[/file]

#4

I didn’t see where all 15 sway bars had to be for E30’s. I think IE and SD both make other model sway bars.

#5

John Haynie wrote:

9.3.8.8. An unmodified non-adjustable front anti-roll bar, measuring 22mm and an
unmodified adjustable rear anti-roll bar, measuring 19mm, are required.
Manufacturer is free, unless specified in these regulations. A “Manufacturer”
is defined as a company conducting commercial business in a specific
location and which produces/builds a minimum of 15 anti roll bar sets of the
same design, per year.

I take "of the same design" to mean just that. A different model car would have a different design.

Michael

#6

You’re right.

#7

please make sure that Racing Dynamics make this set of rules. I cannot download the files for some odd reason but wanted to add this comment early on to ensure that my car is still legal for obvious reasons.

Jon

#8

Jon, RD does make and sell the 22/19 bars. Harrison Motorsports and Factory 3 Performance, to name two, sell them.

I don’t think the intent of the minimum quantity was to create hysteria in the ranks, but simply to get the idea out that folks should be buying bars from a legit supplier, as opposed to having the machinist down the street fab up something special.

#9

I am not sure mass hysteria is what we have. Intent is great but it seems the rule was pretty specific as well. I can get a sway bar made down the street cheaper than buying one. It is not that hard to order the correct steel, have it bent like the original sway bar and weld a tab to the end. After talking to some sway bar makers, they typically don’t even heat treat it to make it a spring. I think they use 4160 steel or something similar.

If the rule is to force you to use particular venders/manufacture’s and spend more then that is what it should say. I was just questioning if these venders/manufacture’s who we are being funneled to can meet the rule.

Not to worry, I will get rid of my custom sway bar and put the ST bar back on. My custom bar had the same stiffness as the ST bar but had easier mounting. The ST bar is stiffer than the IE bar. If someone has the RD bar can they measure it and we can compute the stiffness of it as well.

With the need for $5,000 engine rebuilds I am suprised that sway bars are an issue at all.

Michael

#10

Michael,
if your bar design has merit, then go into business and sell them!
bruce

#11

Bruce Leggett wrote:

[quote]Michael,
if your bar design has merit, then go into business and sell them!
bruce[/quote]

I would not mind at all but to make 15 per year to keep the bar legal is not practical. Sooner or later (and maybe already) the need for these bars will go away with the exception of those of us racing. How many new racers do we get a year?

Michael

#12

How can this rule be enforced? No manufacturer is going to tell you sales numbers.

#13

yeah, I think it should just be worded like - available for purchase by the general public - just to cut out the one-offs.
bruce

#14

If the intent is to limit wild custom trunk mounted blade adjustable bars then why the bizarre wording on a rule that cannot be enforced at the track or otherwise.

Make a list of approved products and call it a day. Approve new ones as needed at the request of the racers or company. As it is this will cost alot of money as I now need to buy a new rear bar from each company that makes one and try it. It was alot easier to just buy a bar that fits and modify it into what I want.

#15

Rob Keehner wrote:

As it is this will cost alot of money as I now need to buy a new rear bar from each company that makes one and try it. It was alot easier to just buy a bar that fits and modify it into what I want.[/quote]

This is how I feel as well. You can get a ready made bar modified to your needs for about $10 if you have to pay someone. It is free if you have the welder. I would not think there is a Spec E30 racer out there who has not found a local welder/fab guy to help mount the window net or seat or reinforce the subframe sway bar mounts or etc.

Michael

#16

Rob and Michael,
you do realize that this is the type of behavior the rule is intended to curtail, right? The intent is for people to buy a bar set and bolt it on … Are the rear bars from various vendors really that different?
bruce

Rob Keehner wrote:

#17

Bruce Leggett wrote:

[quote]Rob and Michael,
you do realize that this is the type of behavior the rule is intended to curtail, right? The intent is for people to buy a bar set and bolt it on … Are the rear bars from various vendors really that different?
bruce[/quote]

how so? if the rules allow choices, racers will explore/test those options to see what works best…if the intent of the rules is to "curtail" this behavior, then the rules need to spec a part, not give options…

it appears that the intent of the rules is to keep people from making/running custom sway bars, not to keep them from figuring out what the best "commercially available" option is and run it…

why are there not spec sway bars for a "spec" series?

#18

Just keep in mind that all the commercially available bars are not equal. Just because a bar is 22mm don’t think the design or lenght of the arms don’t make a difference. Since they are not all the same that is why I don’t understand why you can’t make or modify the bars. If they were the same then it would not matter.

Michael

#19

David White wrote:

[quote]Bruce Leggett wrote:

[quote]Rob and Michael,
you do realize that this is the type of behavior the rule is intended to curtail, right? The intent is for people to buy a bar set and bolt it on … Are the rear bars from various vendors really that different?
bruce[/quote]

how so? if the rules allow choices, racers will explore/test those options to see what works best…if the intent of the rules is to "curtail" this behavior, then the rules need to spec a part, not give options…

it appears that the intent of the rules is to keep people from making/running custom sway bars, not to keep them from figuring out what the best "commercially available" option is and run it…

why are there not spec sway bars for a "spec" series?[/quote]

Agreed. Completely spec the bar (i.e. by manufacturer part number). We’ll b1tch about it (like the exhaust) and then it’s a done deal, with all cars being closer to equal. Else we WILL find the hot setup, and it will be expensive. I already know some advantages to the "older" rules, and which manufacturers make the hot bars. I’m not sharing :stuck_out_tongue: .
-Vic

#20

The bars have been open long enough in the rules there are a multitude of bars already on cars. There are a multitude of already illegal setups on cars. Including adjustable front bars, modified bars, stock rear bars, no rear bars, etc. Why is this being written if you don’t enforce what you already wrote? Another scenario is this. I buy bars from IE each year as I like their kit the best. How can you prove how many I sold? (I use the reference of Bimmerworld, you substitute in your favorite vendors name) What if these vendors have no idea Spec E30 exists and change a minor spec? Racing Dynamics has done this before.

Also this is short sighted as what happens when I design a rules specific barset? Can the guys that have for instance, an IE bar make their own mods? Can I make a kit for my car and offer this as a weld on part for 100 dollars and keep my customers from having to buy a full new setup? If I sell 15 IE/Bimmerworld upgrade kits does that count? Do I phone IE or ST and get them to simply start making the hardware to my spec? Can my barset or kit even get approved for use if the powers that be know it may be slightly superior to others in the series? When the maker upgrades something do older bars get grandfathered in? I guess I don’t see how this solves anything.

Ultimately I really have no problem with creating a tighter spec. The exhaust was done the same way and made a lot of people mad. Justifiably/Arguably it will keep the cars the same speed down the straights. It also leads parity on an easily measured performance parameter. I don’t see how this is the case on bars, there are only so many ways in which an endlink can be attached and built using stock pickup points.