Install your side nets!

#1

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=246936572818833751&hl=en

#2

The benefit of the side net is obvious, but I’m left with some questions after watching the wreck in this video over and over about 20 times - why did this wreck have to happen? A wreck on the straightaway? Did this get classified as just a racing incedent?

Steven

#3

Steven540i wrote:

[quote]The benefit of the side net is obvious, but I’m left with some questions after watching the wreck in this video over and over about 20 times - why did this wreck have to happen? A wreck on the straightaway? Did this get classified as just a racing incedent?

Steven[/quote]

:whistle: Uh, watch in his rearview just before the crash. The maroon E30 was on him like white on rice. There’s some serious contact happening just during that minute or so. I’m sure not typical of SE30 racing.

#4

RichV wrote:

[quote:whistle: Uh, watch in his rearview just before the crash. The maroon E30 was on him like white on rice. There’s some serious contact happening just during that minute or so. I’m sure not typical of SE30 racing.[/quote]

Is this meant to be an explanation of why a wreck happens on a straightaway? If so, I for one don’t buy it. Close racing does not have to = wrecks…

Steven

#5

Holy crap! :blink:

That should not have happened!

#6

damn, what was that guy in the red E30 thinking?? He should have giving the right away. looks like a classic pit maneuver, not exactly a racing technique.

#7

M5wanaB wrote:

I think it was just a racing incident you could go either way on who was at fault, they were just racing hard. I don’t think you can blame the red car for trying to hold his ground on the inside, I think maybe Vic thought he was clear when he wasn’t and started to move over and they got together. Either way great demonstration of the right side net in action. They are required now so its good to see the justification. Thanks for sharing Vic I’m sure you don’t get much enjoyment out of watching your car get smashed.

#8

Glad you had the right side net in… and are Okay.

#9

Thread hijack: Steve Canterbury has asked a valid question about the the repercussions of this incedent. Rich V states that he hopes it is not typical spec e30 racing. As we move to the 2008 season these are things that need to be addressed…Or do they?

We can concede that 2007 and the number of fender-benders that were chalked-up to "consentual contact" (as I believe this crash was,no points were assessed)is water under the bridge.

The Mid Atlantic racers have given out points in some instances. In other cases points were not assessed.

Our Southeast racers are on a learning curve that is about a year behind MA.There have been four metal to metal, or metal to fence occurances in the Southeast this season. No penalty points have been assessed.

If points were assessed–no questions asked-- for metal to metal contact whould we be all racing? Guess I need to brush up on the NASA CCRs to see. Better yet, I’ll defer that problem to my regional spec e30 administration guy , David Cullen so that he can discuss with the SE NASA Administration.

Regards, Robert Patton

#10

Simon, I’ll have to disagree with you. IMO, Vic clearly had the line. Not accusing anyone of wrong doing, but it almost looked like payback.

#11

Seems like the lesson for us rookies is to stay on line until we know for sure that there is no other car overlapped on us. In the video it looks like the red car is basically next to Vic, so red seems to have the right to be there according to the "front bumper next to driver door" test. But it does not look like Vic is making a hard move to the left either, and he has moved further ahead of red when he starts to move left. If I were red I would have simply let him glide in there and then tried to get past later. Just my observation and 2 cents

#12

Tom, Look at the video again, I’ve watched it three times. The windshield of the red e30 is visable in Vic’s rear view mirror as impact to spin him was made. I would say door to door isn’t possible considering the rear view mirror angle.

Will you be at road Atlanta next weekend? I’d like to share a copy of my video from CMP with you.

#13

Steve,
Yep, I am planning to be at RA, would love to see the video, am willing to learn anything I can from it. I thought I read that it was front bumper to door that gave the passer the right to stay in there and try to finish the pass(?) My point in the previous post is that it seems to me that if the passer is not getting by then he should be prepared to let up or brake enough to NOT cause the kind of accident that Vic was involved in. Thats what you did for me and what I did for the guy I was trying to get around. No reason for bent metal and possible injury just because your stuck behind someone.

#14

M5wanaB wrote:

If there is a grey area in the rules which allow for collisions when nobody is at fault, then I think we’re going to have more of these.

As shown in the video, Vic initiated a pass in turn 1. What’s not entirely clear to me is whether he ever completed the pass prior to the incident meaning that Vic’s rear bumper ever got ahead of Johnny’s front bumper. If indeed it was one long pass attempt that started at turn 1 and continued through turn 3, then is seems the rules would say that Vic was at fault since it is the passing driver responsibility to complete the pass safely. If, on the other hand, Vic, even for a second, got entirely ahead of Johnny, then at that moment, the pass that he has initiated in turn 1 would have been completed thus shifting the responsibility to safely re-pass into Johnny’s court.

#15

Jens, Please tell me you are kidding, if not, you are scaring me. Pretty clear to me when a pass is complete and when another pass is being initiated.

#16

25.4.1 Passing General
The responsibility for the decision to pass another car, and to do it safely, rests with the
overtaking driver. The overtaken driver should be aware that he/she is being passed
and must not impede the pass by blocking. A driver who does not watch his/her mirrors
or who appears to be blocking another car seeking a pass may be black-flagged and/or
penalized. The act of passing is initiated when the trailing car’s (Car A) front bumper
overlaps with the lead car’s (Car B ) rear bumper. The act of passing is complete when
Car A ’s rear bumper is ahead of Car B ’s front bumper.

Jens has a point. If Vic’s rear bumper had not cleared Jon’s front bumper, the pass was not complete and Vic was obligated to give Jon racing room. The big question is, did Vic move left and pinch Jon while Jon was on the left edge of the track, or did Vic stay right and Jon turned right and into Vic’s rear?

Vic stated after the crash that he had pinched Jon some to the left while setting up for the upcoming right hander.

Obviously, it’s a lot easier to analyze this after the dust has settled but everyone should know the CCR rules.

I would have stayed right, to give room to Jon.

And I don’t know if I could have backed out quickly enough to avoid contact if I had been in Jon’s position. Clearly, Vic was racing very hard (got Jon sideways at the carousel early in the video - I would never try to stick a nose in from that far back) and it is tough to consciously know what the CCR is going to say, when in the heat of a tough battle…

Personally, I’ll give a little (not a lot though), even when I have the CCR on my side, to avoid contact.

Carter

#17

Patton wrote:

[quote]Thread hijack: Steve Canterbury has asked a valid question about the the repercussions of this incedent. Rich V states that he hopes it is not typical spec e30 racing. As we move to the 2008 season these are things that need to be addressed…Or do they?

We can concede that 2007 and the number of fender-benders that were chalked-up to "consentual contact" (as I believe this crash was,no points were assessed)is water under the bridge.

The Mid Atlantic racers have given out points in some instances. In other cases points were not assessed.

Our Southeast racers are on a learning curve that is about a year behind MA.There have been four metal to metal, or metal to fence occurances in the Southeast this season. No penalty points have been assessed.

If points were assessed–no questions asked-- for metal to metal contact whould we be all racing? Guess I need to brush up on the NASA CCRs to see. Better yet, I’ll defer that problem to my regional spec e30 administration guy , David Cullen so that he can discuss with the SE NASA Administration.

Regards, Robert Patton[/quote]

All Spec E30 drivers in every region should read the CCR for the rules of passing, contact, protests (including protesting a driver’s racing), etc. Spec E30 is (and has been) racing under the rules of the CCR to keep our program legal per NASA, and to keep it consistent across all NASA regions.

I was involved in an incident at VIR and insisted that the other driver and I go through the CCR process.

I encourage all our drivers to do the same if/when they have contact with another driver. However, NASA wants the drivers to discuss the incident (which we did) prior to moving to the next step. And if one driver feels as if he was "wronged," he should move forward with the NASA officials.

If the NASA officials feel that one driver is at fault, they will issue penalties per the CCR.

Carter

#18

Carter wrote:
Jens has a point. If Vic’s rear bumper had not cleared Jon’s front bumper, the pass was not complete and Vic was obligated to give Jon racing room.
Carter[/quote]

After watching this video the fourth time, I’ll have to concede and agree with Jens that maybe the pass wasn’t complete. Of course this could easily be confirmed or denied if Vic and Johnny would comment on it. How about it Guys?

#19

Hey Steve,
By the rules, I had not completed the pass - i.e. my rear bumper hadn’t passed jonny’s front bumper. Also, I’m sure that jonny didn’t dink me on purpose, or retaliate for me getting him sideways. I’d like to think that if the roles were reversed that I would have given more room, but we were racing hard - we had been all season, and we both liked it that way. However, taking it a step farther and saying that I was "at fault" is retarded.

I certainly wasn’t thrilled with the way the weekend ended for me - and that was more about lost opportunities. I outqualified everyone by a huge margin, and then was almost a 1/2 second faster than jonny on my fast lap in the race. He caught some lapped/wrecker traffic breaks and the rest…well, thems the breaks I suppose.

Don’t worry, you’ll see plenty of my rear bumper in 2009!
-Vic

#20

Carter wrote:
All Spec E30 drivers in every region should read the CCR for the rules of passing, contact, protests (including protesting a driver’s racing), etc. Spec E30 is (and has been) racing under the rules of the CCR to keep our program legal per NASA, and to keep it consistent across all NASA regions.

I was involved in an incident at VIR and insisted that the other driver and I go through the CCR process.

I encourage all our drivers to do the same if/when they have contact with another driver. However, NASA wants the drivers to discuss the incident (which we did) prior to moving to the next step. And if one driver feels as if he was "wronged," he should move forward with the NASA officials.

If the NASA officials feel that one driver is at fault, they will issue penalties per the CCR.
Carter[/quote]

Carter, I completely agree. Let me ask you to interpret section 6.9 of the NASA CCR (Body Contact) "Body contact cannot and WILL NOT be tolerated. Anyone involved in body contact must report immediately to the head of pit lane. Harsh penalties will be imposed, including but not limited to, permanent ejection from NASA.

Should Vic have reported immdiately to pit lane, or continued racing?