Why couldn’t we all contribute a small amount of money to a contingency fund that would help pay for repairs to a car that was an "innocent bystander" when an overaggressive or underskilled driver makes a costly mistake? We all share in the risk of this happening. At present, the offender can simply walk away with a suspension, leaving someone with a large repair bill that may knock them out of racing for the season or cause resentment. As this group has a goal of "budget racing," why not budget for the occasional crash? It would act somewhat like insurance, spreading the cost across the group and taking some of the worry out of racing for many people. Setting it up so that "goobers" aren’t more likely to light up the afterburners wouldn’t be difficult, and the fund would only kick in with documented, clear cut "this shouldn’t have happened" events. For example getting divebombed and the side of your car taken off, with video camera documentation. A mandatory suspension would be appropriate. Offenders could be made to pay back part or all of the funds before being allowed back. Or maybe they would make a contribution to the fund on their own. Sponsors could add a few bucks, they like to see close racing. Lots of ways to tweak this, instead of the all or nothing system currently in place. Avoids the traditional taboo on paying for someone else’s damage.
I suggest everyone who races (before their first race) contributes $250 to the fund. It would pay the innocent bystander 50 to 100% of the parts needed to fix the car (avoiding subjective labor costs). A deductible of $1000 (or whatever amount is appropriate) would save worrying about the minor incidents. In the event a driver from another group pops one of us it would also be useful. There could also be a cap to the upper limit funded for a "totaled car". If the fund runs out due to an unforeseen rash of incidents, drivers pony up some more cash.
Being new to the forum, I offer this only as a suggestion, others with more experience may have already tried this or see numerous flaws in the idea.
Contingency crash fund
Not a chance…
Racing is racing not a friendly game of touch football.
We don’t show up to crash but we do drive at a level that more often than not is just below the line of shall i say LOOSE.
This is why we are here, a small sense of danger, an unknown circumstance waiting for us on the track and quite possibly a challenge waiting to improve our driving skills that we would have never experienced in any other venue.
I say race, rub and bump.
But do it tastefully with morals and ethics involved not with reckless indangerment of others.
And if for some reason you are cought up in an unforeseen unavoidible circumstance, well then welcome to the world of competitive automobile racing.
Just my 2 cents
no offense meant
Exige,
You have some wonderful intentions in mind, but I can’t begin to imagine how this would work. There are just too many variables. Some folks don’t attend as many races as others, some have REALLY nicely painted cars. The list of variables just goes on and on.
This is an expensive sport. If my car was hit hard enough, then I probably couldn’t afford to finish the season. Oh well - that’s part of the game.
If it gives you any solace, the SE30 crowd has been great and jumping in and lending a hand on the spot. I’ve helped with a few track-side repairs for competitors of mine, and we’ve read about the heroic efforts at CMP to get a new clutch in.
-Vic
#325
I don’t believe that this will fly for several reasons. Racing is inherently dangerous, hence the rollcage, harness, helmet, firesuit etc etc etc. Racing insurance is already available if you want it so the choice is up to the individual.
Though the cause is noble and deep down I am socially liberal I think this is reaching just a tad bit too much. How about we collect $25 from each competitor and send it off to a Cancer research foundation instead? (There’s my liberal side again)
"As this group has a goal of "budget racing," why not budget for the occasional crash?"
The word budget has two meanings in your statement and you are using them to mean the same thing.
There are rules and regulations in place to insure the safest racing environemnt possible, it is outlined in the NASA CC&R’s.
No offense intended or taken… :whistle:
LOL. Most of you guys don’t know me…
Most of what I have read in this forum has been rather professional and mostly lacking in sarcasm but if sarcasm is the order of the day here is my response:
I am not concerned for my financial welfare, or safety for that matter. Instead, I was offering a solution to the problem that has been written about in other threads ie goobers losing control of their cars and breaking the rules, causing damage to someone else. I suppose if times got hard I could sell my new airplane and buy 50 spec racers. And thanks for the advice that the sport is dangerous. I will pass that on to the classes I teach at the events. Until now I was unaware that I could get hurt. Makes me wonder what else I am missing! Perhaps I should go back to jumping dirt bikes, racing motorcycles or flying aerobatics? Sounds safer. I just knew I should have taken up bullfighting or mountain climbing instead of car racing.
As far as the guy who likes to race and rub: that has been clarified by Carter and others; metal to metal contact is unnecessary and will be punished if it was avoidable. Don’t know you, are you one of the "goobers" Patton was speaking of? What is a goober anyway? I am sure the guys with nice paint jobs know your car number and keep their distance.
Al, while comical, seems to lack concern for the guy who recently had his car whacked by his friend and "got the wind knocked out of his sails". Al’s opinion probably counts little in discussions about money as we all know his car is "disposable" and that he is able to turn a penny into copper wire (no sarcasm intended there.) Probably Al would rather buy 4 sets of used tires with his $250.
Maybe others will respond that may have thought this through a little more instead of just reacting. Everyone wants things to get better, they just don’t want them to change.
Are you guys saying this "we are just one big happy family" stuff is a ‘crock’, or are you sort of the kid brothers with a drinking problem and too many tattoos nobody wants to claim?
sooory
wasn’t shooting for the sarcasm bit just frustrated by recent things i saw unfolding on this forum.
Didn’t mean to upset you.
Rubbing out here(west coast) seems to be done by the faster groups and for know does not include anyone from our family.
We are tight and look out for each other, help one another and respect one another.
Sorry i gave you the wrong impretion.
steve
#804
:dry: Wow
All I can say to that is… I have found Al to be nothing but helpful with those of us who have banged up our cars.
Don’t judge us by trash talk on the board. You may want to meet/get to know these guys before you throw down the gauntlet.
Just want this idea to get looked at without getting bushwhacked. The guys just starting out may be scraping by on a shoe string and may like the idea. Some of you didn’t even read the post, as I specified that it would be for parts only, not "fancy paint jobs". In Factory Five the company actually had a $25,000 fund to donate for repairs (parts, not fancy paint jobs). It was a good thing for all involved.
Ask yourself if you would like to pay for someone else’s dumb mistake in anything else you do. Is this macho or just bad planning?
I believe I offered a reasonable suggestion and then was rather rudely patronized. I then offered a patronizing response. Geez, I crack myself up.
I have spoken to Al on several occasions while shopping for a car, have met him personally, have read his remarks on this board, and am aware that he is a skilled racer and helps guys get their cars running. I stand by my observations. A fun guy, comical, but cheap. Nothing wrong with that. He has solved his crash situation already was my point.
Photo of my plane may or may not be attached. Haven’t tried that yet. Mooney Ovation 2DX.
Since I was quoted earlier in the thread I’ll weigh in too. I’m with Vic; pass thank you.
My education and work background is economics and, with certainty, insurance breeds risky if not reckless behavior. At the extreme end of papers/studies written on this, an economist suggested lowering traffic fatalities by having spikes, not airbags, on steering wheels. The safer, or less costly, a potential action becomes within a set market there is a corresponding increase in the propensity for risky behavior. In that last bit I am repeating my point but just trying to clarify.
So is this a less flippant, more thought out response? I am shooting down your idea, in a sense, but by no means busting on you for throwing it out there. Good of you to propose something new.
And I’m with Al on the gov’t program thingy. Public schooling is a gov’t program and is what I blame for not spelling too good…
I had my car damaged at Road Atl by no fault of my own. two Spec Miatas spun each other and I just happened to be in the worng place at the wrong time. So you idea would be great for someone like. Not a chance though. I wouldn’t even expect one of the Miata guys to come over and offer money to fix my car. the day I chose to put it on track was the day I chose to foot the bills for mine and other people’s mistakes. Thanks but No Thanks. This plan would open pandora’s box that we would never be able to close.
Whether an economist would predict more or less contact with a contingency fund is missing the point, IMO. The point is there are some people with a bad attitude that are wrecking into other people’s cars and then could walk away with a 13/13 penalty (or less) but no financial penalty and this pisses people off.
Exige96 wrote:
Actually you are simply supporting my point on this. It is the someone with a poor attitude that becomes more likely to increase their poor attitude when able to say, "well the dude has got insurance so who cares what I did." Or we could also look at this from a Darwin point of view but that is a bit more morbid.
And an economist missing the point! Blasphamy!! Two guys are in a balloon floating, lost, through the country side when they spot a man down in a field. They yell down to this man, "excuse us, where are we?" "You’re in a balloon", replies the man. One balloonist turns to the other, "that man is an economist." Answering the second balloonist’s question of "and how do you know THAT?", he replies, "his response was entirely accurate but utterly useless."
FWIW, YMMV and so on and so forth.
Hey Exige boy. I am glad to hear you have some dough. You will need it to fix your car when it breaks. I am relatively sure that the guys that WOULD have helped you out will NOT now…dumbass! I don’t even run in your region, but if you ever come to mine, and need assistance, my response will be "D!ck says what?"
mOlson wrote:
[quote]Exige96 wrote:
Actually you are simply supporting my point on this. It is the someone with a poor attitude that becomes more likely to increase their poor attitude when able to say, "well the dude has got insurance so who cares what I did." Or we could also look at this from a Darwin point of view but that is a bit more morbid.
Actually, I am not. I do not think you can fix someone with a poor attitude (or a closed mind). But you can compensate an innocent bystander when aforementioned goober wrecks their car, keeping the field large and competitive. Goober is then banished to study economics or some other safe activity.
Yada Yada Yada.
RMpilot wrote:
This is a particularly inappropriate response on this board. While you are free to express your opinion, please have a little respect and don’t act like a junior high school kid.I have known Mike for a couple seasons now, he is one of our instructors and has been with NASA MA for a while. While his idea is noble, I agree it is a pandora’s box. If Mike has an incident, regardless if he has a plane or "some dough" as you say, I will be willing to help get him back on the track just like I would any other competitor. You,however are not generating any goodwill with a response like the one you made.
Good idea but it just won’t work.
p.s. lets try to keep all the comments on the mature side. If you want to act like a child post somewhere else.