CMP Race reports

#1

Back from a great weekend at CMP. The weather on Sat. was a little iffy. At race time it was starting to drizzle slightly but never decide to come down. That was good thing because most everyone lined up on dry tires.

Al Taylor was on the pole with myself second.(He got lucky!:stuck_out_tongue: ) I think I led the first lap though and by lap 2 Al was spinning wildly off into the dirt at turn 8. Al spent a lot of time spining this weekend.:silly: About this time Brandon Smith and I started to break away from the pack. We had a great battle. He passed me and led for a few laps and I passed him back only to drop two wheels off coming out 12 sending me into tank slapper and tapping Brandonā€™s car ever so slightly. I couldnā€™t collect the spin and went from 1st to 5th just like that. Was able to get back up to 4th by the end of the race. 1 mistake in a spec e30 race is hard to come back from and I feel like I let one get away by not driving smart. I believe this was Brandons first win, so congrats to him.

Sunday Skeen was on pole, followed by Robert, Al and myself. It was hot Sunday and the lap times showed. At the start I went by Al into turn 1 right behind Robert. Al would once again spin:silly: and Skeen, Robert and myself started to pull away from the rest of the pack. Skeen was driving well and after getting past Robert I could never make up the gap to Skeen. Another first time winner I think. He desereved on after a run of bad luck.

The only downside for me was the fact that coming off the scales on Sunday my car died and would not re-fire. I had to push it on the trailer. Still havenā€™t looked at it yet.

Overall another great SE region weekend. Road ATL in a month:woohoo:

#2

Damion, both Skeen and Brandon have posted Spec E30 wins before, so this wasnt their first rodeo. Congratulations to both winners.

It was a frustruating weekend for both Patton drivers, one with a car with too much oversteer and one with oversteer and a mystery cut off at 5000-5500 rpm. Weā€™ll get it fixed and move on to Road Atlanta.

Thanks to all that came out for the race. No sheetmetal damage and mininal griping about on-track driving. Some talk about needless "defending of the line" during Sundays race. I can only offer that it was a 40 minute (long) race and racing for position while the pack gets farther ahead of the offending (literally) driver is not a driving style that wins friends and influences people.

Or, maybe it does influence people. You race others as they race you.

Donā€™t get me wrong: As I was going backward in the pack during the race, I didā€™t roll over and play dead. But neither did I defend the position by being in the way. Heck I even gave Travis a point-by as he went to pass me. Safe passā€¦you bet. (I really wanted to see if he would wash out into turn ten. He did just a bit. I tried a switch back thru the autocross area, we raced side-by-side, and he drove on by down the front straight.)Travis got a good 3rd place in the race.

Good weekend and it was great to see and meet new racers Jim Levie, Bill Z., Lea, Fred and others that were there in HPDE or time trials.

Regards, Robert Patton

#3

I had some car problems right off the trailer, causing me to miss Saturday morning practice. When trying to drive the car to get gas, the car stalled and would not run when restarted. After borrowing a gas can from Scott and filling the car, it still would not run. At some point, the gas tank had been severely dented, breaking the internal fuel pump and causing excessive electrical draw, which blew the fuse for the pumps. Thanks to Al, Travis, Stephen, Steve, et al, we managed to work through the problems and get the car running in time for qualifying; I was 3rd place on the grid.

At the start, I dropped back to 4th place in turn 3. After passing spinning-Al and letting Patton sneak through, I ran in 4th for the first half of the race. On lap 6, I inherited 3rd place when Damion spun. As most people started turning slower lap times toward the second half of the race, my car was getting faster. I caught and passed Robert on lap 8 for 2nd position but Brandon had a solid lead and managed it well all the way to the checkered flag.

In qualifying on Sunday morning, the car felt much better than either session the day before. I went fastest on lap 3, turning a 1:57.844, which got me the pole.

Since Sundayā€™s race was longer, everyone was worried about tires going off, which of course, they did. I pushed hard for the first couple laps, going fastest on lap 2. At that point, I backed off just enough to hold my gap and conserve the tires while driving to the finish.

And in case you guys didnā€™t see this in the SE thread; there was a 944 driver that found me afterwards to say he was very impressed with all the SE30 guys. He said we were the most courteous group he had run withā€¦so congrats to everyone.

#4

A slightly different perspective, one from much further back in the fieldā€¦ I had never driven CMP. Saturday was a learning experience for me. Fortunately, I was able to figure out when to turn left and right just in the knick of time when the green flag dropped. Unfortunately, I forgot how to shift and screwed the start all up. I got caught in a small war with Chuck, Laura and Steve Foushee (well, I was more like the war reporter than a soldier this time). I watched Chuck drive the wheels off his car sideways (literally, apparently) while I was busy chasing down Laura and Steve. Donā€™t remember the details, but lots of spins (Al Taylor and others) and Foushee thought he entered a D1 event instead of a road race. I managed to keep it on the asphalt and take a 10th place spotā€¦ which earns me CDOC credit! GET SOME b!tches! In an ironic twist of fate (or maybe mad genius racecraft), 6th place is for suckers!

Sundayā€™s race went much better. I knew where to go (for the most part but not all), just had a hard time making the car go there. I got a good start this time, so at least I got that going for me. I ended up passing Jim Robinson, who turned out to be my arch rival in that race. He worked me like a donkey in the desert, but I managed to stay in front. David Cullen played it smart by letting us duke it out and then passed us. Apparently, you just gotta be smarter than the tool. I think Jim has video from this race in case anyone wants to learn some of the horrible 7th ish place lines.

Robert, as always, thanks for getting me addicted to this mess.

Skeen, good work. Maybe you were due this one?

Brandon Smith: Next time, at least let someone else win the FREAKIN RAFFLE! Throw us a bone man!

As usual, Iā€™m walking away with perma-grin. Fun times. See you guys at Road Atlanta.

#5

Race 1:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4676230637172629740

Race 2 (highlights, sorta):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8948906034708882330

#6

Good post Mike, and so true. This was definitely a weekend that separated the experienced racers from the not so experienced racers with regard to tires. I qualified 12th in class Saturday and gained four spots in eleven laps before losing them all in the last lap as I spun in turn 11 finishing exactly where I started. My car started pushing like a dump truck in the last three laps of the race. The tires were completely gone; I had nothing left to hold my position. After watching the tape, it became apparent that I was overdriving the car and overheating the tires.

Mike was kind enough to let me view his in car tape Sunday morning and comparing it to mine, there were substantial difference in the way he went through turns 3, 5, 6 and the long stretch into 11. I was sure I could duplicate his prowess and cut the time differential between his lap time and mine. Needless to say, that was wishful thinking on my part. Mike is a very talented driver and although watching tape helps, it is clear there is just no substitute for seat time. My performance Sunday was worse that Saturday. Iā€™m just happy to bring the car home without damage. It was a very fun weekend and I had a great time.

Robert, I must say after reading your post that I was very impressed with the way Laura drove this weekend. I know you are as proud of her as I would be.

#7

Wow, that was fun!!:woohoo: (Damn, I say that every time). Saturday was my 4th race ever and I was psyched to qualify 7th and finish in 7th. Sunday I really learned a lesson about qualifyingā€¦ During the race I got to climb a couple of positions from 14th and felt I was gettiing faster as the race progressed. However, I then got stuck behind a fellow e30 driver who apparently REALLY DID NOT want me to get past him as evidenced by my in-car video (which I will post once I figure out how to get it from the camera to the computer to the internet). I donā€™t understand the tactic of holding up someone who has reeled you in from several positions (and lots of distance) back, especially when we were at the back of the field. If allowed to get through, the faster car could help BOTH cars catch up with the group ahead. I eventually did get by, dropped him, and was able to catch up with the car ahead of me. This is not pro racing, we are all here to have fun and do our best - holding someone up is not your best and does not allow the held-up person to do their best. Like Robert alluded to in his post we should allow safe passes rather than fighting tooth and nail to hang onto a position, especially a crappy one like 11th.
I donā€™t want to sound like a whinner, and none of it really matters because this stuff is so fun!!! It was a fantastic weekend and I canā€™t wait for Road Atlanta.

#8

Tom, Its all relative. If you watched my race tape Saturday, you would probably be able to say the same thing about the way you drove. There were two occasions I had to brake to avoid you collecting me turning in at twelve. Had you given me room to race you, I would have passed you at twelve.

#9

Iā€™ll put my two cents in, Iā€™d never seen CMP before Sat. and it took me a day to get up to even medicore pace. I qualified 13th and finished ā€¦ 13th driving pretty much by myself and trying to figure out a quicker way around the course.

Sunday was a little better, hitched a ride on Chuck Taylorā€™s bumper for qualifying and came in at a respectable 7th. Fell asleep at the switch coming into turn 1 twice and paid for it. Craig managed to badger me into figuring out my rube goldberg-esque camera setup. No sound so you have to deal with my music choices which probably only I will find amusing. The Race End video has very NC17 lyrics. Turn the sound down, youā€™ll be fine. I think I finished 7th or 8th, not sure how DQ, etc does to standings.

Iā€™m waiting on the A/V club to figure out the microphone so next time you can hear sweet glasspack roar instead. Also none of these laps are going on my highlight reel, but you have to take the good with the bad.

Start -

Middle -

Race End -

#10

Steve,

I agree its all relative and I donā€™t want to be a hipocrate (sp?). I remember you being behind me on Saturday and I remember you getting inside me at T12 a couple laps in a row, but I tried to take an outside line and not apex the corner in order to give you room to get through - if that is not what I did then I appologize for that and Iā€™ll be more careful next time. However, I was stuck behind for many laps (I have not counted but I have to think it was around 10 laps) and tried many times to pass (probably 5 or so) and my video shows that the other driver did not take an outside line and did apex the corners in question. However, the more I think about it the more I think its just racing and if I canā€™t get by the car in front of me then its my problem not his / hers. Personally, from now on I am going to be more aware of cars behind / passing me and will be more conscience of letting cars through. Again, none of it really matters when you are having so much fun - no matter what position you are in.

Tom

#11

Hey Yalles

Does the GCR define blocking? I have not checked it but I believe you can make one move in front of a competitor but not 2ā€¦there is lots of grey area and with corners it is really tough, with more experiance you will figure out where to pass certain people at certain tracks. I think the younger folks in the series are better at storing away this info and recalling it when they need it. Of course you can justr go flying into the inside braking zone and hope you make it, that is what I doā€¦

Al

#12

25.4.1 Passing General
The responsibility for the decision to pass another car, and to do it safely, rests with the
overtaking driver. The overtaken driver should be aware that he/she is being passed
and must not impede the pass by blocking. A driver who does not watch his/her mirrors
or who appears to be blocking another car seeking a pass may be black-flagged and/or
penalized. The act of passing is initiated when the trailing carā€™s (Car A) front bumper
overlaps with the lead carā€™s (Car B) rear bumper. The act of passing is complete when
Car Aā€™s rear bumper is ahead of Car Bā€™s front bumper. ā€œNO PASSINGā€ means a pass
cannot even be initiated. Any overlap in a NO PASSING area is considered illegal.

25.4.3 Right to the Line
The driver in front has the right to choose any line, so long as not to be considered
blocking. The driver attempting to make a pass shall have the right to the line when their
front wheel is next to the driver of the other vehicle. Note: This rule may be superseded
by class specific rules.
25.4.4 Blocking
A driver may choose to protect his or her line so long as it is not considered blocking.
Blocking is defined as two (2) consecutive line changes to ā€œprotect his/her line,ā€ and in
doing so, impedes the vehicle that is trying to pass with each of the two (2) consecutive
movements. Drivers are encouraged to check with the Race Director for a full
explanation before the start of the race.

#13

Boy, that seems as clear as MUD! So, as long as the car in front does not make 2 moves to get the line in front of car behind, itā€™s not blocking? Does that mean two moves at a time or per lap or per turn or per what?

Tomā€™s situation was that he was getting his front bumper past the other drivers rear bumper and then getting sqeezed out the back again as they got to the apex.

Again, it seems like the front driver was just prolonging what was going to happen anyway or SHOULD have happened anyway! If you let the faster car by, maybe he/she can help you cover some ground and bring you back too speed. It the very least, he/she may show you another, faster line!

#14

jhall1957 wrote:

[quote]Tomā€™s situation was that he was getting his front bumper past the other drivers rear bumper and then getting sqeezed out the back again as they got to the apex.
[/quote]

Jeff, As I said before, it is all relative to your own position and what you are trying to accomplish. I donā€™t know if Tom intentionally blocked me or if he just wanted the line. It doesnā€™t really matter, he and I are buds, but the bottom line is, Tom blocked me three times in turn twelve exactly as you discribe above. My tires went away after the ninth lap and I had nothing for him. If my car had been driven by anyone else, Tomā€™s car would definately have damage to the right rear quarter and passenger door today.

Edit: As Robert Patton has said many times. You have to know who you are racing and how bad they want it.

second edit: Tom, I didnā€™t see your previous post on page one until now. You and I are cool and no apology is necessary, but I appreciate you offering it. :wink:

#15

The "2 moves" I believe is meant to be at each pass attempt. In other words, you can be online, then move low in the braking zone to hold the inside, but you cannot then go back to the outside.

As far as getting a bumper alongside, that is not enough. You (as the passing car) donā€™t have a right to the line until your front wheel is alongside the driver of the lead car, or halfway alongside. If you get your front bumper past the rear bumper of the lead car but do not get up to the driver, expect the chop. That is not blocking.

#16

OK, time for me to weigh in since Iā€™m probably the "hypothetical" driver in the Sunday action! From my view of the situation, Tom was indeed behind me for several laps. Tom made a number of passing attempts primarily with a late braking move going into 11 diving to the inside. Tom would get partially alongside (certainly not along side driverā€™s door. Did I open the way by staying outside through the entry to 11, probably not. Did I leave a car width to the apex of 11 (wherever that is), probably not. My tires got so bad that Tom was later able to get by and pull away. I certainly hope that I didnā€™t make multiple blocking moves to prevent a pass attempt. There is however a defensive line that can be run through a corner to make a pass more difficult rather than concede a pass. I would love to see the video from Tomā€™s car as I certainly donā€™t want to be viewed as showing poor sportsmanship and am always willing interested in learning race craft.

#17

Gasman wrote:

blocked or defended?

if someone is blocking you, it needs to be reported or at the very least have a discussion with them about itā€¦blocking is illegal and, imo, a very serious matter (it can be very dangerous)

one of my pet peeves is people that misuse the term "blocking"ā€¦blocking is 2 defensive moves (illegal) and defending (1 move) is perfectly legalā€¦

#18

David, Tom did not make two consecutive moves, so by definition it was not a block. According to the NASA rules regarding right to line, he was supposed to give me 3/4 of a car width room to make the turn since my bumper was well inside his quarter panel. He didnā€™t do this, he took the same line every single time, so I knew exactly what he was going to do. Had I not surrendered the position, he and I would have had post race wreck issues to discuss.

#19

We now join our regularly sheduled program, "As the Wheel Turns." In this episodeā€¦

Blocking, defending, GCRs, VCRs, PBRsā€¦the definitions can be debated all day. Each person will have a different intrepetation. While it is entertaining to read, it is baffling to realize that not everyone sees it your way. Baffling too, to realize that mistakes while you refine your skills can have bad consequences. Tony Stewart doesnā€™t race like Robby Gordon, who doesnā€™t race like Mark Martin who kinda races like David Pearson.

David Pearson: retro, cool cat, races when it is time to race.Experience on-track will teach you so much. Iā€™ll try to adopt the Pearson style.

Regards, Robert Patton

PBRsā€¦only one definition: Pabst Blue Ribbon beer

Edit, definition two: Professional Bull Riders

#20

Gasman wrote:

25.4.3 Right to the Line
The driver in front has the right to choose any line, so long as not to be considered blocking. The driver attempting to make a pass shall have the right to the line when their front wheel is next to the driver of the other vehicle. Note: This rule may be superseded by class specific rules.

your bumper was up to his rear quarter or front quarter? if rear quarter, you dont have the "right to the line"ā€¦just sticking your nose in doesnt mean a driver has to give you room, though some doā€¦as many have eluded to, you will learn who you can do that to and get away with it and who will shut the door on youā€¦

good to hear he wasnt blocking!