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Are there different definitions for 25.4.3 depending on whether you are the passer or the passee?
Steve, in Saturday’s race, you shut the door on me a couple times when all I had was a fender inside your bumper, which was a legal move, and I have no complaint about it. Later on, I got beside your drivers door in T14 and you left me room.
What you did in taking the apex from me sounds no different than what Tom did to you, so I don’t see the beef. You can’t have it both ways.
David, let me know if you would like to see my in car tape.
As I’ve said before Tom and I are fine.
Chuck, This is starting to be a funny thread. We all report what we see from the drivers seat without thinking we could be guilty of what we are accusing someone else of doing. All I was attempting to do is point out to Tom that he was accusing Chuck Smith of something he had done. Now I learn from you that I have done it too. I’m guessing whoever was behind you will chime in soon. 
sure, i always like to see in-car…
i was just asking because your description (my bumper was well inside his quarter panel) is pretty vague…which bumper and which quarter panel? it sounds like your front bumper was up next to his rear quarter, which would mean (by the rules) you did not have the right to the line. If your front bumper was along side his front quarter (meaning your front tire should be at least along side the driver of the other car), then you absolutely had the right to the line.
if it was the 2nd case (your front bumper was along side is front quarter), and he closed the door, it would have been very difficult to avoid contact.
Ok, I learned alot.
Lesson one, no one is accusing anyone.
Lesson two, everyone is just trying to reach a point of mutual understanding of a difficult rule.
Lesson three, we are all "OK" with each other and still one happy family.
Lesson four, I’m glad I have a Spec E30 and not one of them Miaties or 9-44’s!
I think the best lesson comes to us from the good book, The Book of Patton, Chapter 14, vs. 6-8- "do to themins what you-ins want themins to do to you-ins" or something like that!
David, I’ll dub you a copy and send it anywhere you please. Please provide me with your address, my email is sfoushee@somco.com
mskeen wrote:
[quote]The "2 moves" I believe is meant to be at each pass attempt. In other words, you can be online, then move low in the braking zone to hold the inside, but you cannot then go back to the outside.
As far as getting a bumper alongside, that is not enough. You (as the passing car) don’t have a right to the line until your front wheel is alongside the driver of the lead car, or halfway alongside. If you get your front bumper past the rear bumper of the lead car but do not get up to the driver, expect the chop. That is not blocking.[/quote]This is how I understand it exactly.
Additionally the way this can be enforced is with video…and brought up within the 30 minute period after the completion of the race. I do remember one incident at Summit where a driver was blocking all the way down the front straight where we all could plainly see from the tower…that one did not need video.
nasaregistrar wrote:
[quote]mskeen wrote:
[quote]The "2 moves" I believe is meant to be at each pass attempt. In other words, you can be online, then move low in the braking zone to hold the inside, but you cannot then go back to the outside.
As far as getting a bumper alongside, that is not enough. You (as the passing car) don’t have a right to the line until your front wheel is alongside the driver of the lead car, or halfway alongside. If you get your front bumper past the rear bumper of the lead car but do not get up to the driver, expect the chop. That is not blocking.[/quote]This is how I understand it exactly.[/quote]
+1
Look, we are all racing. You wanna get past me in racing you are gonna have to earn it. I’m not gonna being weaving all over track but I’m not going to leave the welcome mat out for you either.
Steve, your my pal and I watched the in car video but Tom was no where near blocking you in the Sat. race. Sure he was leaving the door open in turn 12 with the line he was running but he was also slamming it shut which is what he shoud he do. You could have pushed the issue but if any contact had happened I would have said it was your fault because you honestly weren’t close enough to make it work.
I haven’t seen Tom’s video but I could imagine it was about the same situtuation between Tom and Keith. And Keith has been doing this long enough now to know what acceptable and what’s not.
Don’t take this the wrong way but some of the rookies may need a little more experience at this game before they start crying foul.
My CMP report
DROVE car to track
Got pole on Sat
Drove concervatively both days
Drove car home Sun
Oh, I did get the coveted 6th place trophy
Al
DMoses wrote:
cough, cough, road atl back straight, cough, cough 
i still say its your fault that i drove most of the front straight in the dirt…i mean, it has to be your fault right? it couldnt be my fault? :evil:
ps- Damion scared me away from spec e30 :dry:
Hey, just getting a chance to check the thread. Sorry, didn’t mean to open such a can of worms. Mostly I guess I am trying to get an understanding of what is acceptible when it comes to attempting a pass or being attempted upon (is that correct grammer? Probably not). Anyway, I hold absolutely no hard feelings towards Keith or anyone else and I hope all can say the same towards me. And Steve, of course we’re cool - hell I want the critiquing of my fellow racers because I want to get good at this and to be considered safe and fun to race with.
Now that I know the front bumper / door thing (which is about what I guessed)I will have to go back and watch the video to see where I was. Which brings up an idea: We should edit together a video of various in-car footage to show at Comp School so that we rookies can see what is acceptible and not.
I am working on figuring out how to put some edited video on the internet right now, mostly so I can have some old friends see what I am doing. I also what ya’ll to see Al attacking the gator strips in T1,2,3 - it was fun to follow you Al, and I think it helped me up my game on Sunday.
If I can get video going I’ll post a link - eventhough its probably going to show that I am completely in the wrong - oh well, wouldn’t be the first time for that.
Cheers,
Tom
Damion, You are my pal too, but if you would, please read the entire thread before you decide to chime in. We have already established that Tom wasn’t blocking.
dmwhite wrote:
[quote]DMoses wrote:
cough, cough, road atl back straight, cough, cough
i still say its your fault that i drove most of the front straight in the dirt…i mean, it has to be your fault right? it couldnt be my fault? :evil:
ps- Damion scared me away from spec e30 :dry:[/quote]
I gave you plenty of room. You’re just a pussy:woohoo:
I think you have missed my point. You were never close enough to Tom for him to have to give you any room what so ever.