BMW CCA New Race Class

#1

Way back in the day, circa 2003, when I was looking to go racing there was this upstart thing called Spec E30 and the BMWCCA class of cars that were in class K in either Prepared or Stock.

Stock was a closer approximation to the evolving Spec E30 car so I built a KS/Spec E30 racer that is now Laura’s 911 car.

I did some CCA racing back in the day, but more of the NASA stuff as we struggled to build the field sizes in the Southeast. But, mostly, I drove around on an empty (class wise) track.

Now it is 2011 and the BMW guys have changed the Stock class over to a designation called “Sport” which perfectly fits our cars.

If I knew how to post links to their rules I would do so…

The point of this rambling, if you want to be in a nationally recognized class and have a chance to compete (in KP we were not competitive), check out BMWCCA’s new Sport class.

Who knows, you too, could be a National Champion. Ask me how I know. The “hollow” plaque on the wall is justified by the fact I was the only one racing (see paragraph three).Give me points for knowing how to read?.! Seriously speaking, I did out race some KP cars back in the day. But, you would be hard pressed to do so today as their (BMWCCA’s) competition has gotten so much better, too. So, I’m kinda kidding, kinda serious, because, just like Spec E30 , the more racers that show up to play the more competitive it will be.

Anyone racing with the BMWCCA crowd this year?

Regards, Robert Patton

#2

I’d like to. I had a BMWCCA rookie license but never raced with them. I’m going to try to change that this year.

#3

Robert, I can’t find any info re. to a new CR class called “Sport”.

#4

proposed rules here: http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/_uploads/2011CR_Rules_JC_FINALv2.pdf

this is moot anyways for SE30 since BMW CR allows NASA/SCCA classes to run as-is. The problem is finding enough SE30s that actually want to race BMW CR.

edit: robert has a good point about national points though. SE30 is not eligible for national pts in BMW CR. KSport I assume will be.

#5

Great news! I’m moving to the Kansas City area in Julyish and this will give me more options for racing my current car.

#6

FishMan wrote:

maybe not… i’m not aware of any BMW CR events in that general area. Mid Oh might be the closest.

#7

i did two bmwcca races at RA in 2010. both times there were 4-5 se30 cars. i also signed up for races at vir but i was the only se30 car entered so i bailed since there’s no point in racing alone. this is the impression i walked away with:

  • fewer cars means less competition
  • different safety gear requirements
  • higher entry fee (although some are three day events)
  • every other car is faster, sometimes much faster
  • less boisterous crowd
  • no toyo bucks

(no disrespect to chuck ctaylor or kellyc or anyone who is involved with bmwcca). on the plus side the events were well run, it’s a pretty safe crowd on track, and a good finish will get your name in roundel. i had fun both times, but not as much fun as a nasa-se event. plus you gotta have a bmwcca cr license (that’s another $80 iirc), mine expired a few weeks ago and i’m debating whether or not it’s worth renewing.

#8

Correct on the National class: Spec E30 is not, and by nature of BMW rules, one would have to assume that the KS racer would be.

Heck, If you spend money on an entry fee, might as well be National Champ (or chump). But, as posted, if enough racers do the KS thing, there will be competition. Just ask Simon Hunter about his races in JS back in the day. JStock (e30 M3s) was one of the most contested classes.

RP

Fishman why the move?

#9

The Army is “asking” me to attend some training (not jail) at Fort Leavenworth for a year. There are three tracks close:
Heartland Park, Topeka, KS - 54 miles/1.2 hours
Mid America Motor Plex, Pacific Junction, IA - 150 miles/3 hours
Hallett Motor Racing Circuit, Jennings, OK - 291 miles/5.5 hours
After the year in Kansas, I will likely end up in Texas or Georgia, but possibly Washington State, Germany or somewhere else. I’ll have to wait and see…

Mid Ohio is 750 miles from KS; work permitting, I plan to make the trek to the Nationals. Putnam Park (590 miles) is the the closest track (West of Indianpolis) that I know of with a SpecE30 turnout. Now that I have the Dodge Diesel, long treks won’t be as hard. It was a bi$tch dragging my 8000LB trailer around with my Jeep… It all depends on my Army schedule as to what events I’ll be able to attend in SE.

#10

What Major Fish didn’t mention is that the school is a whole year long, and is considered a duty station. That is to say once you go there, you go somewhere else afterwards. You don’t go there for a while and then come home. The school is a gateway to Lt Col. LTC in ArmySpeak.

This new class means that SpecE30 can go to Nationals whereas I don’t think that we could have done that as a “foreign class”. Just put a chip in and go.

The downside is that it could dilute local/region races. It would be a bummer for 6 SpecE30’s to show up and half run SpecE30 foriegn and the other half run Sport. If folks were smart they’d coord prior and all enter the same class.

#11

fish, you’d be running with NASA GL at those tracks. BMW CR doesn’t run much there unless O’fest happens to be at one of them.

BMW CR doesn’t have “Nationals” (unless you count O’fest as a National) but National Pts are aggegated for their classes. Agree that SE30s should coordinate what class they would be in. Ranger, come to Mid Oh in May and we can run KSport together :slight_smile:

#12

Here are the (MAJOR) allowed modifications to a KS car that would make a SpecE30 uncompetetive. That is assuming, of course, that someone bothered to build an all-out KS car. The combination of coil-overs, Hoosiers/Hankooks/BFG R1’s, and a lower diff ratio would make a full-on KS car notably quicker than a SpecE30.

…come to think of it, my KP car would have fit KS for most of 2 years I raced it in BMWCCA.

Suspension
4. Height-adjustable front coil-over setups mounted in the original location are permitted.
5. Rear springs are free but must be mounted in the original location. Adjustable rear spring perches may be
used to adjust ride height so long as they mount in the springs’ original manner and location. Heightadjustable
rear coilovers are allowed only in cars originally factory equipped with coilover rear suspensions.
6. Sway bar sizes, configurations, end links and end link connectors are free. Adjustable sway bars are
allowed so long as they cannot be remotely adjusted or adjusted by the driver from inside the car.

G. Tires and Wheels

  1. Any DOT-approved, nationally marketed, generally available, “road race version” tire is allowed. “V” or
    higher speed-rated tires are required for all cars, except those for which “V” rated tires are not universally
    available. In all cases, the speed rating of the tire must be equal to or greater than the speed potential of the
    vehicle.
  2. Rain tires – Any rain tire must be based on a DOT approved tire (for example, a grooved, DOT-approved
    Hoosier RS04 tire would be legal). Any other treaded tire permitted under Paragraph A may also be used as
    a rain tire. Requests for approval of any other rain tires must be submitted to the National Technical
    Steward.

I. Differential

  1. Ratio of the ring and pinion is free.
  2. Non-factory limited slip of any type is allowed, including welding of the gears.
#13

jtower wrote:

[quote]- every other car is faster, sometimes much faster
[/quote]
So it’s basically the same as your NASA experience? :laugh:

Bummer that SE30 types will have to remove the toe adjusters from their rear subframe to be legal. :wink:

The Sport class looks like a great place to race a Pro3 car or an ITS car. I am not sure how competitive you could be with a legal SE30.

It would be fun to build one of these cars with free intake, double adjustable shocks, big bars, Hoosiers, chip, lightweight BBS wheels, 4.10 diff…

Flywheel question: does “stock configuration and weight” mean I can use the trick thick-hub, low intertia piece IndyJim sold me out of his SE30? It’s round, teeth on the edges, and weighs the same as stock.

#14

Anthony, I’m with you.

So, if it gets serious,you add a chip,drop in the cold air box/ducting to the box, you change your tires and join the fray.If it is a track that lends itself to a 4.10, you do a gear swap.

Help me argue the suspension stuff as I think our talented corps of drivers could take on any BMWCCA challenge.

Anthony, what do you think?

RP

Steve, I think the Pro 3 guys are a makeshift of old SCCA cars that have the ABS deleted and have cylinder head modifications that throw them into KP? Maybe cams…I don’t know the rule set.

PS this is more funner than talking about a poopie board. Let’s go racing (somewhere).

#15

Pro 3 has cams.

Dumb question…Hoosier’s are considered DOT tires just like our DOT-R RA1’s?

A 4.10 diff would be interesting, but changing it for a race would be a pita. Although the Resources subforum had some recent good ideas for making it less painful.

Ya, that Poopy Board thread turned into a real downer.

#16

Come on Scott, I can do a diff swap in less than a hour. The bolts are not rust-bound and the working area is free of dirt. And, I have a lift at the shop, he,he,he.

Seriously, the “things I wish I’d knowed” post had some good diff swap tips.

RP

#17

The tires will be the biggest difference. And yes, Hoosier R6, Hankook C51, BFG R1, are all DOT legal. That’s actually why they’ve got those 2 circumfrencial grooves. :wink:

The suspension is a big difference, though, especially if dealing with more grip of the tires above (and therefore more weight transfer). The biggest difference from a stiffer coil-over and adjustable-shock suspension is the more controlled weight transfer and thus quicker transitions (it “takes a set” in the corner more quickly). The car can be lowered for less roll and lower CG. The shocks can also be tuned to the track surface to optimize grip.

To quote Ross Bentley’s “Speed Secrets”, “The sooner the car takes a set, the sooner you can drive the car at it’s limit, and the faster you will be.”

BMWCCA DOES have some very good racers, including some ex-pros. Their worst are no worse than NASA’s worst. So, the above comparison is assuming equal drivers.

I do a lot of BMWCCA events, mainly coaching. They’re a lot of fun and some of my best friends are BMWCCA Club Racers. If I could afford to race more events, I would run with them. The fastest cars ARE 15-20 sec a lap faster than a SpecE30 on a sub-2-min track, but the fields are not big enough to dictate split groups, except at O’Fest.

I, too, followed the “poopie board” thread and was disheartened by it’s results. I guess with so many people in your region, not everyone is going to like everyone. The premise of the discussion makes me wonder if I should plan on replacing my car when the MA / SE kids come join us at Nationals. :unsure:

#18

Anthony, oops, not a slam on CCA racers, just that I doubt the talented ones are itching to drive in KS class…

Perhaps if we invade CCA for some races we can do so without too much use of the KS trick parts.Time will tell if the Sport class(es) catch on. Great concept.

RP

#19

Z3SpdDmn wrote:

[quote]Here are the (MAJOR) allowed modifications to a KS car that would make a SpecE30 uncompetetive. That is assuming, of course, that someone bothered to build an all-out KS car. The combination of coil-overs, Hoosiers/Hankooks/BFG R1’s, and a lower diff ratio would make a full-on KS car notably quicker than a SpecE30.

…come to think of it, my KP car would have fit KS for most of 2 years I raced it in BMWCCA.

Suspension
4. Height-adjustable front coil-over setups mounted in the original location are permitted.
5. Rear springs are free but must be mounted in the original location. Adjustable rear spring perches may be
used to adjust ride height so long as they mount in the springs’ original manner and location. Heightadjustable
rear coilovers are allowed only in cars originally factory equipped with coilover rear suspensions.
6. Sway bar sizes, configurations, end links and end link connectors are free. Adjustable sway bars are
allowed so long as they cannot be remotely adjusted or adjusted by the driver from inside the car.

G. Tires and Wheels

  1. Any DOT-approved, nationally marketed, generally available, “road race version” tire is allowed. “V” or
    higher speed-rated tires are required for all cars, except those for which “V” rated tires are not universally
    available. In all cases, the speed rating of the tire must be equal to or greater than the speed potential of the
    vehicle.
  2. Rain tires – Any rain tire must be based on a DOT approved tire (for example, a grooved, DOT-approved
    Hoosier RS04 tire would be legal). Any other treaded tire permitted under Paragraph A may also be used as
    a rain tire. Requests for approval of any other rain tires must be submitted to the National Technical
    Steward.

I. Differential

  1. Ratio of the ring and pinion is free.
  2. Non-factory limited slip of any type is allowed, including welding of the gears.[/quote]

in other words, bmwcca is geared towards people who like spending lots of money on their cars, while spec e30 is geared towards people who want to race equal cars inexpensively. different strokes for different folks, nothing wrong with the bmwcca approach but trying to shoehorn a se30 car into that arena is a losing proposition. why doesn’t bmwcca just let the se30 “guest” class be eligible for national points? at the last bmwcca race i did there were more se30 than almost every other class. if bmwcca wants to treat se30 like a bastard stepchild that’s their call, but don’t be surprised when people don’t sign up.

#20

Patton wrote:

[quote]Anthony, oops, not a slam on CCA racers, just that I doubt the talented ones are itching to drive in KS class…

Perhaps if we invade CCA for some races we can do so without too much use of the KS trick parts. Time will tell if the Sport class(es) catch on. Great concept.

RP[/quote]
Robert, I agree.

jtower wrote:

Jason, I don’t think that’s true. While, yes, SpecE30’s focus is a little different, BMWCCA is not just about spending money. I see plenty of NASA cars that go further with spending than most BMWCCA cars.

The reason for the new Sport class is to provide a smoother and CHEAPER transition for DE cars into Club Racing. It was theorized that many DE cars already had coil-over type suspensions and wouldn’t want to de-tune them, but also didn’t want to spend the HUGE coin to build a Prepared car to the limit of the rules. I don’t necessarily agree with this mentality (I, in fact, detuned my KP car to come play in SpecE30), but that was how it came about. Nobody really races in the Stock classes anyway, as the only decently sized stock class of JS (E30 M3) has evolved into M3Touring. Actually, I wonder if M3Touring is the new J-Sport… Other than those, there are literally only a couple of IS and HS cars out there.

I don’t think that it’s BMWCCA’s job to provide a SpecE30 racing class within their organization. While I think it’s beneficial to them that they do (and DID), it was because it made business sense. Did NASA make a class to allow SpecE36’s? No, they made Spec3, which directly competes with SpecE36 and allows no cross-over.