Back in Business

#1

A few items.

  1. I was on vacation last week and left my laptop at home…on purpose.
  2. I have caught up with all the posts except the thread I posted prior to leaving. I have a feeling that it will take some serious reading time and it’s almost 2:00 am here.
  3. This week, we’ll discuss penalties and how they are/will be issued, and what is expected of our drivers. With the growing fields and new racers, we want everyone to be on the same page with this. Chris Cobetto (NASA Mid Atlantic Owner/Regional Director)and I have had several lengthy discussions over the last 24 hours.
  4. Mike Mills, Spec E30 Cofounder and webguy is in China until Monday. If something happens on the site, we’ll pause until he can get back and get it fixed.

Carter

#2

If you were up until 2am the contents of the post must have been entertaining?.! (choose your sentence punctuation)

The SE guys and gals are trying to learn from the experience and we will have a draft of a regional 13/13 for your consideration. It is being sent to Cullen today and will be forwarded to SE racers later in the week. Those that are at Rockingham will have a chance to discuss its contents with the race group.

Regards, Robert Patton

#3

Robert:

I’m happy to look at the 13/13 but the local group (all classes that race in a particular group) or class decides if it wants a 13/13. When I come to Road Atlanta in Aug, I will do whatever you guys have decided to do in your sandbox.

Carter

#4

Our rules will likely mirror the sandbox that the MA guys adopt. Draft for your consideration is being sent.

Regards, Robert Patton

#5

A brief correction…

If your run group in the Southeast decides on a 13/13, that’s fine. But within our Spec E30 class, and in all NASA Regions, we will use the CCR procedures.

I’m sorry for the confusion.

Also, the Mid Atlantic Autobahn Group Series Directors are discussing using the CCR in cross-class incidents.

Again, not to go soft…but to have strict procedures.

Carter

#6

For all reading this, let me profess that I am a HUGE Robert Patton fan. I’ve said on many occasions he is the best ambassador for our sport. Having said that, it is my opinion that if we race in the NASA series, we adhere to the NASA CCR’s within the series; not the rules we impose on ourselves, within the rules. If the Spec Miata or the 944 cup guys, or any other POS running in our race doesn’t adopt the same 13/13 rule, what have we really accomplished? The suggested/proposed 13/13 rule would not have served any purpose in the unavoidaable body contact Damion had with the two Miata’s at Road Atlanta; however, the 14.5 Nasa CCR would have placed both drivers on probation if Damion had filed a grievance with the race director. The rules were well thought out IMO, we just need to know them and use them.

#7

if the Race Director dictates that a race group is 13/13, then all participants in that race group must adhere to the 13/13 rules of non-contact. Always a bad idea to race with Spec Miata…
cheers,
bruce

Gasman wrote:

#8

Gasman wrote:

Steve, IMO you are right on the money. I’ve raced with several 13/13 groups (BMW CCA, GTS2 and VSCCA) and I’ve seen 13 month probations handed out for guys crashing into the tires on their own. Maybe it was their fault, maybe it wasn’t. Regardless, what’s up with that? This is NASA, not BMW CCA. Personally, I like racing with Miatas and Porsches, I like racing with Mustangs and Camaros, it adds a different element of excitment and challenge. BMW CCA doesn’t run with them and I feel overall their racing culture is different. Not bad, just different. NASA is better, so let’s keep NASA, NASA. As we’ve discussed, the CCR rules will penalize those for making poor decisions and hopefully deter them from doing it again. I’m done, let’s just go racing!

#9

http://www.toddlamb.com/videos/2007_mar_rdatl_sm.wmv

Found this video from the Atlanta race over on the Miata forum.

#10

Wow, that was terrible. Was there damage? Was there a yellow flag at that station because of the 2 disabled cars at that corner?

Per the NASA CCR:
5. Any contact resulting in a “punt� as defined by these guidelines: Disqualification
6. Any contact resulting in damage and punt: Disqualification and one (1) race suspension
7. Passing under a standing yellow or double yellow: Reposition to last place minimum)
8. Passing under waving yellow and / or over-driving any yellow: Disqualification
(minimum)

Under strict 13/13, there’s no penalty and the guilty driver would be on probabtion for 13 months.
Under the CCR, there’s the possiblity of a suspension - guess it depends on the facts that we don’t have from just the video.

-Vic
#325

#11

Considering that the #268 was being LAPPED and the incident is moreso incredible.That is me in the Taxi that let the Miatas pass two turns earlier. They were racing for position-I was just driving around.Clearly the #268 had more straightaway talent and decided to race the two Miatas into the corner.

I sat back and said to myself "this is not going to be pretty." It wasn’t.

The Miata guy didnt speak up.

The SE region did not have any damage guidelines in place.

We still don’t. Wings clipped…defer to race director and the CCRs.

These growing pains are difficult.

Regards, Robert Patton

#12

So, the problem was the Miata guy not speaking up. The system is in place for dealing with it if he had. Correct?

#13

I especially enjoyed the "special thanks to" line at the end.

#14

Steve, DO NOT assume as much.It gets back to the written versus the subjective.

Race Director trumps E30 spec administrator. CCRs trumps E30spec administrator.

Understand the pecking order of rules and the pecking order on the track and move on.

Quickly, you should learn who to race with and who to avoid.

#15

Gasman wrote:

That’s how I see it.

And when more guys use the CCR procedures (I’ll have a copy at every race weekend) in these situations, and the word gets out, it will help reduce dive-bomb passes and punts.

Robert drove admirably in the race because it was the right thing to do. Others will need the threat of CCR action to affect their decisions.

Carter

#16

In the Rocky Mountain region, the Regional Director (race director) deals with every contact incident, not just the ones that some driver complains about. Here is his response when someone asked if the amount of body contact seen in a Texas AI/CMC 2006 "highlights" video was the norm …

[quote]No. As someone who isn’t interested in doing a lot of body work, is planning on racing CMC and is 100% in control of the rules here in RM I can spell out the rules. We covered it in the driver’s meeting at PMI and I think with the minimal amount of body contact we had I think the message was clear. It’s also spelled out in the CCR and I take it quite literal.

You can not push and bang your way to a win. If you are found to be at fault causing body damage (see CCR for definition) or cause a spin, deviation, change in position you will be DQ’ed. End of story. Subsequent incidents can result in you being put on probation, suspension or total loss of your license (i.e. you did it on purpose).

If you take the Nationals as an example, the penalty for dumb moves was quite severe. If you punted, hit or spun someone you were asked to put the car on the trailer and sent packing. Yes, even if you came all the way to Ohio from California… (I personally sent home an Evo from CA for hitting another car and taking off their RF corner during qualifying on Friday).

Will close competition cars such as CMC/AI/SM/944 occasionally rub because of close racing? Yes -that’s how the sport works. Is it tolerated when people have to fix their cars week after week so they don’t look like piles of junk - No.

We have people coming to NASA RM because they are tired of doing body work. I will keep this the case.[/quote]

cheers,
bruce

#17

It sounds like the NASA Regions are getting on the same page…

Carter

#18

Carter wrote:

[quote]Gasman wrote:

That’s how I see it.

And when more guys use the CCR procedures (I’ll have a copy at every race weekend) in these situations, and the word gets out, it will help reduce dive-bomb passes and punts.

Robert drove admirably in the race because it was the right thing to do. Others will need the threat of CCR action to affect their decisions.

Carter[/quote]
I have the CCR on my laptop in registration. If there is body contact, Grumpy wants to know about it and if a corner calls in contact, we want to see the car. I have searched out cars in the paddock for this very reason.If you have any car to car contact, you are supposed to come to the tech shed and fill out a body contact form.

#19

I checked out the results from NASA-SE - neither driver in the video finished the race.

Wow.

I’m amazed that this accident occured. I would not expect this sort of driving from a NASA-licensed racer.

Paul Marshall, you’ve got some serious apologizing to do.

-Vic

#20

I am jumping in in the middle of this but in OH/IN region you only get 30 min to report contact and fill out the form. Then the director decides what happens next per the CCR. IRB’s came into play late last season and seemed to work fairly well also. I don’t think all contact goes to the IRB.