2011 Nationals - Who's Going?

#81

Hey Everyone,

Sorry for the seemingly abrupt announcement on the spec fuel. Will Faules was anxious to get the word out and sent it out without any upfront info about me being assigned the duties of National SE30 Director.

A little background: about two months ago NASA sent out an email asking for volunteers for Nationals. I responded saying I’d like to help out and could take the time off from work. I was willing to do anything NASA wanted; work pregrid, tech or pump gas. Will asked if I would be the SpecE30 director for the event and work with Tech. I agreed. The first item that came up for discussion was if a spec fuel should be adopted for SE30. Will, myself, Ryan Flaherty (SoCal) and Carter Hunt discussed via email. At $5/gallon and available at the track pumps it seemed a good choice and eliminated one less variable, hence our agreement to go with it. It will however require each car to install a fuel sample port (we are working on a separate announcement and a possible group buy discount).

I can speak for Will and the other tech guys who will be working SE30 Nationals (Alan Blaine and Jeff Mohler, both from NorCal), we want to make Nationals the safest and fairest event that we can. We are volunteering our time for this event and each is paying our own way out to Ohio. NASA pays for our hotel and gives us $500 for expenses.

I am a racer too so I know your side of the fence. I want to do my best to make this a great event for all of you. You’ll find me a fair and reasonable guy…I don’t do “chickenshit”.

Work fairly with me and I promise to do the same.

Respectfully,
Scott Neville

#82

Scott, thank you for volunteering to do this.
Could you please explain why this issue came up for SpecE30 in the first place? What prompted this to be something you guys felt that we need to do?
Thanks for taking the time to fill us in!

#83

[quote=“Z3SpdDmn” post=59248]Scott, thank you for volunteering to do this.
Could you please explain why this issue came up for SpecE30 in the first place? What prompted this to be something you guys felt that we need to do?
Thanks for taking the time to fill us in![/quote]

Sure Anthony,

Will Faules sent out an email to myself, Ryan Flarhety and Carter Hunt letting us know that SM and SSM were going with spec fuel and wanted to find out if that was something we should adopt for SE30. The cost would be a little more than offsite retail pump gas ($5/gallon vs. $3.50/gal) and would be available at the track pump. With the moderate extra cost, trackside availability and having everyone use it made sense for our spec class. That’s why we adopted it. The price point of the gas helped…I don’t know how far the nearest off site retail gas station is but I would think too it’s more convenient getting the gas at the track.

That was our reasoning. I hope that helps.

Thanks,
Scott

#84

Thanks for clarifying Scott, and thanks for volunteering. I’ll throw in my 2 cents. Its not just the cost of the gas that is annoying but now we have to buy a fuel port and add it to the car. It might not seem like much but its still extra money and its just another $80 on an already expensive weekend. I mean I would like to practice on wednesday to scrub tires and stuff but I’m not paying $300 for 1 day of practice. Also the gas at the track is more of a hassle and not a convenience. Its not like we can just drive our trucks down there and fill up some jugs at our lesiure, those pumps are going to busy and there will be vehicles all over the place. The pump is not exactly located in a low traffic area. It would be a thousand times easier to just fill up some jugs at a gas station before I get to the track. Now I have to fight everyone at the track to get my gas and pay extra for it. Futhermore I now have to siphon about 10 gallons of gas out of my car because it is not approved. I thought we were a little more laid back than this can I expect motor teardowns next?

#85

In case my post sounded negative I’m not blaming you guys, you made the best decision you could at the time its just a little frustrating especially this close to Nationals to suddenly require special fuel. I think just being related to Spec Miata worries me :lol:.

#86

Why can’t we just disconnect the fuel line that goes into the pressure regulator and jump the pump relay to punp fuel for tech…

#87

i agree with simon, and also want to reiterate that it isn’t directed at scott. right now i’m dealing with some car problems and am really on the fence about even going, every time i hear about this kind of thing it just nudges my do-i-or-don’t-i meter another tick towards the don’t side. parking. crazy expensive practice day. worry about what inspectors will find wrong with my car. now there’s mandatory fuel and modifying my car for a fuel inspection port whatever that is. i feel an ulcer coming on just thinking about all this.

#88

Spec fuel…good intentions…horrid implementation. Three weeks before a national event…this should be scheduled to happen next year at the nationals. Give people adequate time to react. For instance, how do I get fuel to dyno my motor to assure proper performance before the nationals. If my motor is set up to run 87 octane rather than 93, what do I do. Neither the requirement for the test port nor the spec fuel is in the rule book…to me, neither of those can be required for any race before a rule change. To make these changes for one race a year also puts an economic burden on racers. My .02…Chuck

#89

Guys,

As far as practice day run whatever gas you want. The rest of the event will require the spec gas.

You will need to be able to supply our tech crew with a sample of fuel if requested. However you want to do that is up to you. A fuel port makes it easier.

A number of commercial sampling ports are available. Below are a list of vendors.

Weekend Racer will offer a group buy and will have the port kits delivered to MidOhio on a group buy. $15 off for a group buy of 10 or greater. $20 off for a group buy of 20 or greater.

For group buy info contact John Mueller at john@weekend-racer.com

http://www.weekend-racer.com/fuel-sampl … p_606.html
http://www.saferacer.com/miata-cage-fue … ductid=565
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ … RecID=3447
http://store.bimmerworld.com/fuel-sampl … -p570.aspx

Other examples of fuel sample ports:
http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/sccafuelports/page2.html

Again, we feel this elminates another variable to the class at a modest cost increase. It’s an honest attempt to make an improvement to the class. If, early on in the event, we find that getting gas at the track is a huge hassle for folks we can scrap it.

Scott

#90

Simple:

Tech is in an enclosed area, and pressurized fuel WILL spray some distance as you disassemble the hose…we’ve seen this happen at times in practice. It takes 10 minutes to install something like this, and when you read that you have a fuel rule that someone is gonna check someday, you can plan ahead or not.

I imagine some people wont have a safe port for this, and it’s going to take that competitor -time- to be moved somewhere else safe, to have this inspection done. Im not COT, but I will be in tech, and my opinion is that a fuel check without a safe manner to do so, will happen outdoors (not in the tent) as tech personnel have time to do it…or maybe in a more cleared out area once everyone else is gone. I dont know, this is gonna save you guys time.

Its a safety issue, and well, we all wanna know the people we’re racing with did it clean. Right?

And…pump gas isnt ‘spec’ fuel, it’s pump gas, available from a major market refinery (same gas as in town), and we all recognize issues with transporting 100s of gallons of fuel from the local station to the track…it’s a PITA, and at worst, illegal depending how to manage it. And this sets a level bar for competition. Nationals matters…here’s your spec class pump fuel.

And did I mention that it’s around the safety of the competitors, tech, and YOUR racecar to add this simple part that will save you time.

Aint nobody getting rich off this…get the cheap one, get the fancy one. Tech wont care…but a tent with 10 hot cars and open fuel lines…C’mon guys…really?

#91

how do I get fuel to dyno my motor to assure proper performance before the nationals. If my motor is set up to run 87 octane rather than 93, what do I do

Its PUMP gas. Get some at home, dyno. Get some at the track…not any difference, if there is any at all, on the dyno there for your use. Its not a 5000 gallon boutique ERC fuel drum being provided. :slight_smile:

Open question…why are you tuning for 87, when rules allow 93? Just curious…

#92

[quote=“sneville44” post=59272]
Other examples of fuel sample ports:
http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/sccafuelports/page2.html[/quote]

Been using Paul Morrison’s ports in SCCA cars for almost 10 years. Good low cost solution.

#93

[quote=“Tow Mater” post=59273]Simple:

Tech is in an enclosed area, and pressurized fuel WILL spray some distance as you disassemble the hose…we’ve seen this happen at times in practice. It takes 10 minutes to install something like this, and when you read that you have a fuel rule that someone is gonna check someday, you can plan ahead or not.

I imagine some people wont have a safe port for this, and it’s going to take that competitor -time- to be moved somewhere else safe, to have this inspection done. Im not COT, but I will be in tech, and my opinion is that a fuel check without a safe manner to do so, will happen outdoors (not in the tent) as tech personnel have time to do it…or maybe in a more cleared out area once everyone else is gone. I dont know, this is gonna save you guys time.

Its a safety issue, and well, we all wanna know the people we’re racing with did it clean. Right?

And…pump gas isnt ‘spec’ fuel, it’s pump gas, available from a major market refinery (same gas as in town), and we all recognize issues with transporting 100s of gallons of fuel from the local station to the track…it’s a PITA, and at worst, illegal depending how to manage it. And this sets a level bar for competition. Nationals matters…here’s your spec class pump fuel.

And did I mention that it’s around the safety of the competitors, tech, and YOUR racecar to add this simple part that will save you time.

Aint nobody getting rich off this…get the cheap one, get the fancy one. Tech wont care…but a tent with 10 hot cars and open fuel lines…C’mon guys…really?[/quote]

I live in California so I guess I’m used to someone holding my hand, F*@$ing Nanny State. I’ll bite and play it safe by getting a port.

#94

Really?

#95

[quote=“Tow Mater” post=59273]Simple:

Tech is in an enclosed area, and pressurized fuel WILL spray some distance as you disassemble the hose…we’ve seen this happen at times in practice. It takes 10 minutes to install something like this, and when you read that you have a fuel rule that someone is gonna check someday, you can plan ahead or not.

I imagine some people wont have a safe port for this, and it’s going to take that competitor -time- to be moved somewhere else safe, to have this inspection done. Im not COT, but I will be in tech, and my opinion is that a fuel check without a safe manner to do so, will happen outdoors (not in the tent) as tech personnel have time to do it…or maybe in a more cleared out area once everyone else is gone. I dont know, this is gonna save you guys time.[/quote]
Every E30 has a “safe” port for a smaple w/o adding any parts. That being the fuel return line from the FPR. Disconnect the hose, place a cup uner the nipple on the FPR ,and jumper the fuel pump relay for a few seconds. Since that line isn’t pressurized fuel doesn’t spray when it is disconnected.

#96

Except that its still an open port under the hood of your hot engine. Under a tent with 8-12 other cars also cracking open fuel systems over their hot engines.

That’s not safe by fuel handling standards. I think we can both agree on that.

It is safER than the pressurized side, but 10min worth of hardware shows us this can be done safer…that’s all. And with the spec-rules in place that everybody agrees is a good thing, and its a better thing to enforce them openly and often to maintain the integrity of the class…there’s gonna be a lotta fuel testing going on between various classes with the rule in place. We all win…we get a clean National event for the class and we dont end up being “That Class…” that’s about as tight on rules as a leaky 911. ducks

It’s not a trivial matter to pull a few hundred fuel samples between stacked up classes of cars in tech when everyone is in a hurry over the course of an entire event.

I suppose Scott would be welcome to hear arguments how we should do things less safe and take longer to perform.

:slight_smile:

The smart guys will have this on their cars and done by Beer:30 Thursday next week. (or in their hands by Tequila:45 Saturday if they only have weekends to wrench)

#97

I love spec racing! Then that one guy races with $20 per gallon super-badass go-go juice in his car and with no other adjustments makes 3+ pony’s and ruins all the fun.

[ul]
[li]SE30 has a chance to stop the fuel arms race before it gets out of control.[/li]
[li]Most Spec Miata driver love the spec fuel rule, it keeps us closer to each other, which is the point of spec racing.[/li]
[li]Lastly, the late announcement may have something to do with how much fuel was going to be available.[/li]
[/ul]

Really, this is a good thing guys.

#98

I love spec racing! Then that one guy races with $20 per gallon super-badass go-go juice in his car and with no other adjustments makes 3+ pony’s and ruins all the fun.

[ul]
[li]SE30 has a chance to stop the fuel arms race before it gets out of control.[/li]
[li]Most Spec Miata driver love the spec fuel rule, it keeps us closer to each other, which is the point of spec racing.[/li]
[li]Lastly, the late announcement may have something to do with how much fuel was going to be available.[/li]
[/ul]

Really, this is a good thing guys.[/quote]
i’m far more worried about the cars with $6k+ motors that make upwards of 160rwhp. i have wet dreams of being 3hp down.

#99

[quote=“jtower” post=59284]
i’m far more worried about the cars with $6k+ motors that make upwards of 160rwhp. i have wet dreams of being 3hp down.[/quote]

I hear ya, we have the same problem is SM. Now Imagine one of those big-motors using an exotic fuel…

#100

NEW PRODUCT LISTING FOR THE GROUP BUY: http://www.weekend-racer.com/se30-group-buy-fuel-sample-port-p_608.html