West Coast Championships

#1

And the winner is?

Discuss…

Thanks to all that respond, always fun to read about your racing adventures.

RP

#2

Tough crowd.

100 views and no responses, so we know the topic is being watched.
This establishes that forums are dead and Facebook rules?

Seriously, there is more exposure to ALL the other racers here than trying to catch Billy Bob’s latest rant or video on Facebook. Too many Billy Bobs to follow, literally. However that is where the interweb bees going.

Can’t fix that, or the perception of those that post.

Perception: maybe so, again 100 views wanting to read about YOUR race. The East Coast race result page has over 3600 views and 70 responses.

Help us out!

RP

#3

I’m curious also. I followed along as best I could via racerconnect and race monitor, but still interested in the stories. Did Sandro’s contact DQ him for Sunday’s race? I just assumed he’d have to start at the back, but it doesn’t look like he ran at all.
Cliff

#4

Did anyone else hear that two competitors refused tech and got dq’d?

http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/NASA_Championships/Western%20States%202014%20Sonoma%20Raceway/Sunday/Group%20C%20SpecE,%20Spec%203/Group%20C%20Sunday%20Championship%20Race%20Provisional.pdf

I hope that’s not the case.

#5

Yes the two that got DQ’d did not do the engine tear down required for the top 5 finishers!

#6

Sandro did start the race from the back and hit the turn 11 tire wall lap two I think!

Scott

#7

Team Clough had a good weekend. Thanks for the correspondence. Congratulations on your 7th place finish. A top 10 on either of these “coast” races is a great accomplishment.

RP

#8

Thanks Robert!

It was a very fast group of racers this last weekend!
Congratulations to everyone that participated in the event.
I was also fortunate enough to finish in third place in NorCal season points as the WSC was a NorCal regional double points race!!!

Scott

#9

First of all I want to congratulate not only Larry Frasier for winning the West Coast championship but also to everyone else in spec e30 who made the effort to be there & race. Certainly one of the highlights of the weekend was Saturday nights Spec e30 BBQ which again speaks volumes for the culture that has been created. It is a tight group of racers who enjoy each others company on & off the track.

For everyone else who either didn’t stick around all Sunday afternoon for tech or are viewing from another region of the country I thought I would publicly share my reasons for electing to not have my motor torn down for my 5th place finish. My reasons may or may not be different than those of 4th place finisher Michael Shawhan who also elected to not be torn down. As many of you who follow this forum know, my motor has been the topic of conversation for the past 1.5 years. The motor has made big HP & in fact I made too much after this years Laguna event & was DQ’d. Following that race, I took necessary steps to reduce HP & fall within the new spec e30 HP guidelines. The last few races of the season I dyno’d & was compliant. Additionally, a week ago last Friday, I spent time on the TFB dyno to confirm that my motor was still producing HP in the 157-159 range. After Saturday’s race finish I was sent to the dyno again replicating basically those same numbers, 156-158 range. The tech teardown session was extensive, Remove intake & Exhaust manifold, oil pan, head, #2 piston/rod, rear diff & then disassemble rear diff entirely, crank piston sensor. 2 of the top 3 finishers are shop owners/technicians. Larry’s skill set qualifies him to be in the same company. I stood by & watched not only each of those 3 but the other 1 or 2 techs they had helping each of them & it was about a 4.5hr job. I’m now thinking, what is a guy like me with little mechanical skill, no tech crew going to do. Equally important, what about the box of parts when this tear down is done & what is it going to cost me to put my motor & diff back together. I chatted about with a few others & seemed to be about $2,500 in cost. Shawhan elected to take the DQ & I was “up to bat”, it came down to an economic decision for me. A DQ is a DQ…a 4th place finish is worth $400 in Toyo Bucks. Should 3rd place get DQ’d then it would be worth a bit more but not anywhere near what it would cost to put everything back together. Another consideration was the grouping of the top 5. For those that don’t follow Norcal spec e30, this group represents the “usual suspects”, meaning that just about every race weekend in the past 2 years, this group of top 5 will be found within the top 7. We know who we are, we know where we measure up, we fight hard & usually have great battles, nobody ever walks away from the field. We quietly “self govern”. We all stayed within legal HP limits & battled this weekend. Yesterday, I truly had no better than a 5th place car, look at the fast race lap times. I didn’t deserve nor did I earn a better finish by Shawhan electing to not tear down. At least to me, seems rather pointless.

I’m sure that many of your will share different opinions about the choice I made. Under different circumstances like an earned podium finish, I would have gladly enlisted some help to tear down the car.

That’s it…

#10

Rob,
I finished 4th on track and refused the inspection. After leading every session all weekend then getting knocked off track on lap 1 turn 2 of the Sunday race. I caught back up to the leaders then was knocked off track again while passing for First place. My fuel line was cut and my suspension bent, so i limped around to a 4th place. So when i came in to weigh i was 2688… so 12lbs underweight due to leaking fuel the entire race. Im 25 years old and don’t have the funds to rebuild my entire motor. The inspection they were having us do(since i was underweight not sure why they wanted to tech me), had us pull the head, 1 piston, intake manifold, take apart the entire rear differential. So in order to put it back together you have to rebuild the entire motor. This is after i passed the dyno test as well. I left my car in tech until i found out that the cars in-front of me passed. I know it never looks good to decline a tech, but in my case i just cant afford the $$$ to do it unless i won and got the $4k from toyo. So i was ready to pull it for first place, but i would be left with a car in parts as i don’t know how to put it back together myself.

#11

Good for you guys for refusing it. I personally feel the valve DQ at East Coast was BS. It was very disheartening to see Lako celebrate a well deserved win after running up front all weekend (and season for that matter) only to have it taken away by questionable circumstances. Not sure about Robert’s DQ but my understanding is that it was unintentional and may can be blamed on autozone, and probably had no effect, plus i believe he passed dyno anyway. We don’t run crate motors, this isn’t the IROC series, there are no inspection seals (or paid inspectors for that matter), and this isn’t NASCAR or F1. Put the damn cars on a dyno, get a number, get a toqure curve, open a beer, celebrate the race. Why the hell is our amateur series tearing down motors? Who gives a shit what’s inside if the numbers are within spec. HP, Torque, Weight. The only other factor is talent, which leaves most of us out of the top 5 anyway. If somebody wants to use Camaro pistons and Ferrari valves, so what as long as it makes proper HP and Torque. If by some stroke of luck (bad luck for others), everyone in front of me spins and I win, if my car dynos and weighs within spec it’s going straight to the trailer regardless of what tech wants to see on the inside. I’ll be happy to show anything you can see with the hood open but there’s no way i’ll remove so much as a nut to open it up, simply because it’s not worth my time or the money to prove that my legally dynoed and weighed car is still “legal” for an amateur race that i do for fun. Besides, if a valve is too “shinny” or “dull” or “purple” or “pitted” or “angry” or “impolite” it doesn’t matter because the next race it will be right there again because i’m not rebuilding an engine (which I don’t know how to do) for dicey regulations anyway. Sorry for the rant but we are weekend warriors. We have the basic tools to keep everybody reasonably close without unnecessary work and expense (which is what we are trying do in the first place with a SPEC series!). The days of 170+ HP are over so lets refocus on simplicity and explore getting a dyno to more events if it will keep panties from wadding up. And cheers to you guys for standing up for us other lazy bastards who are just out there for a good time!

#12

Thanks, Steve and Mike.

Having raced for many years in the SE you come to know the racers that you compete with and their mechanical aptitude.

I understand the financials and the nothing-to be-gained scenario Mike wrote about.

Congratulations to both of you for the great finishes. Great to hear Steve talk about the Saturday night get-together as being one of the event highlights.

RP

Wow, Edmonds and I agree on a topic.

#13

Espinosa rented a car, took the start, and the brakes allegedly failed going into turn 11 (that’s the hairpin after the fast straight with the giant wall behind it). Shawhan got kind of a raw deal with that fuel issue. I wonder who’s going to get the Hard Charger award…Stepanian started 27th and ended up 13th, I bet he’s got a shot.

#14

What where the ‘questionable’ east DQs?

#15

A valve with the wrong finish and an autozone FPR that was not an oem number from what I heard. May be more to it but as far as I know they were fine on the dyno and weight (as was everyone) so as far as I’m concerned they should be legal. They DQ’d Sandro in a Q race for opening his hood and he’s better than any of us. Silliness. I just don’t agree with all this fine toothed comb stuff. Good thing I had my socks on.

#16

So an illegally modified valve, and an FPR specifically too high of a pressure, are questionable?

It’s not about part numbers, but cracking open and reading the rules you elect to compete under.

Both participants were gladly offered the chance to educate the process to prevent the disqualification.

Neither did, that I’m aware of. That’s not a lack of NASA doing it’s job.

It’s not a fine toothed comb. And the details around a DQ are not really all that secret once results are finalized. Relying on rumors and incomplete data is only harmful to your own experience.

It’s spec racing guidelines and rules.

The ‘I met HP’ argument is specious, and changing the topic. It is also worth noting that the HP rule came up because of a specific hot build, and the HP rule is only one possible rule out of many that govern participation in any class in the motorsport world.

For eleven months of the year, EVERYBODY knows who’s cheating, what they’re doing…but wont fill out a protest form. Then comes the -1- race that matters, and the cheaters get a [limited] support group.

?

-Respectfully.

#17

Support your assertion that the valve was illegally modified pls. I contend that the valves with different finishes are readily available from major OEM oriented parts suppliers, and are explicitly marketed as OEM replacement. Take a look at PelicanParts, for example.

#18

I think that is a pretty big jealous insult to the top finishers every weekend. We want to think that they are cheating because they are beating us and are usually better drivers than us. We don’t fill out a protest form because we know they’re better than us and we will look like idiots when nothing is found. Plus it would mean we would be late for the Mexican restaurant SE30 group dinner with all the cheaters and angels. In the southeast the only protest you find after the race is the top five drivers refusing to drink Sandro’s witches brew of alcohol.There is not a car in the paddock that cannot be DQ’d for some silly reason. Scott said it perfectly about the valves and any changes to the FPR would show up on, you guessed it, the Dyno. For a while I had to use a 3.0 bar FPR to keep my engine from burning itself up because it was running so lean until I figured out what the problem was (wrong injectors BTW). The way I see it a modified or autozone FPR is a really cheap way to get closer to the hp cap without having to rebuild. We should put that in as a suggestion not a penalty. It’s also pretty deflating for the winners of the “one race” to know that the “prize money” is automatically repair money. We can’t all sit at the cool table but that doesn’t mean we should take their lunches away because we are jealous. K.I.S.S.

#19

[quote=“Steve Ferrario” post=79020]First of all I want to congratulate not only Larry Frasier for winning the West Coast championship but also to everyone else in spec e30 who made the effort to be there & race. Certainly one of the highlights of the weekend was Saturday nights Spec e30 BBQ which again speaks volumes for the culture that has been created. It is a tight group of racers who enjoy each others company on & off the track.

For everyone else who either didn’t stick around all Sunday afternoon for tech or are viewing from another region of the country I thought I would publicly share my reasons for electing to not have my motor torn down for my 5th place finish. My reasons may or may not be different than those of 4th place finisher Michael Shawhan who also elected to not be torn down. As many of you who follow this forum know, my motor has been the topic of conversation for the past 1.5 years. The motor has made big HP & in fact I made too much after this years Laguna event & was DQ’d. Following that race, I took necessary steps to reduce HP & fall within the new spec e30 HP guidelines. The last few races of the season I dyno’d & was compliant. Additionally, a week ago last Friday, I spent time on the TFB dyno to confirm that my motor was still producing HP in the 157-159 range. After Saturday’s race finish I was sent to the dyno again replicating basically those same numbers, 156-158 range. The tech teardown session was extensive, Remove intake & Exhaust manifold, oil pan, head, #2 piston/rod, rear diff & then disassemble rear diff entirely, crank piston sensor. 2 of the top 3 finishers are shop owners/technicians. Larry’s skill set qualifies him to be in the same company. I stood by & watched not only each of those 3 but the other 1 or 2 techs they had helping each of them & it was about a 4.5hr job. I’m now thinking, what is a guy like me with little mechanical skill, no tech crew going to do. Equally important, what about the box of parts when this tear down is done & what is it going to cost me to put my motor & diff back together. I chatted about with a few others & seemed to be about $2,500 in cost. Shawhan elected to take the DQ & I was “up to bat”, it came down to an economic decision for me. A DQ is a DQ…a 4th place finish is worth $400 in Toyo Bucks. Should 3rd place get DQ’d then it would be worth a bit more but not anywhere near what it would cost to put everything back together. Another consideration was the grouping of the top 5. For those that don’t follow Norcal spec e30, this group represents the “usual suspects”, meaning that just about every race weekend in the past 2 years, this group of top 5 will be found within the top 7. We know who we are, we know where we measure up, we fight hard & usually have great battles, nobody ever walks away from the field. We quietly “self govern”. We all stayed within legal HP limits & battled this weekend. Yesterday, I truly had no better than a 5th place car, look at the fast race lap times. I didn’t deserve nor did I earn a better finish by Shawhan electing to not tear down. At least to me, seems rather pointless.

I’m sure that many of your will share different opinions about the choice I made. Under different circumstances like an earned podium finish, I would have gladly enlisted some help to tear down the car.

That’s it…[/quote]

Steve, it sounds like you missed your chance to redeem yourself and added even more suspicion to your competitors.

#20

Perhaps a series without so many rules would be a better fit.