VIR next weekend

#1

All:

Great list of racers. We’ll have another great weekend at VIR and hopefully the weather will be better.

A couple of announcements…

BimmerWorld has stepped-up and is offering support to the Mid Atlantic Region of Spec E30. With this, we will have an inventory of spare parts, brake pads, etc. at the track. I will keep the inventory and if a part is needed, it will be noted in the "Parts Book" and the buyer will pay BimmerWorld after the weekend. With 27 cars at the last VIR race weekend, several of us needed hoses, etc. With BimmerWorld’s support, we will have them with us. Because of this valuable resource, we are now the BimmerWorld Mid Atlantic Spec E30 Championship. I will have the required decals at the track next weekend. Each car must have the two decals on the car, during practice, qualifying, and race sessions. These parts can save a racer’s weekend.

Secondly, Bilstein has agreed to support our efforts. I met with the very personable Scott MacDonald at their Mooresville, NC facility this week. Bilstein has supplied us with one rear shock, with "Spec E30" stamped on the body. During the race weekend at VIR - and later - one driver will use this shock. His shock will be shipped to Bilstein and checked on the shock dyno. Scott said that a revalved shock will definitely show up on their shock dyno. After the check, his shock will be returned as long as it is legal. Spec E30 will pay the shipping to and from Bilstein and the Control shock must be returned to Spec E30 at the end of the weekend. Does anyone see a problem with a car being trailered home, missing one rear shock?

Later this season, we’re also going to check the front struts, using the same method and we plan to add more Control shocks to the program. And more than one car will be using the Spec E30 shocks at selected race weekends.

In addition, the Control dampers will be shipped to other regions. This program will apply to all regions, not just the Mid Atlantic.

Carter

Ps. As a part of the shock program, we’re also considering, along with other penalties, the idea of placing an “I got caught cheating� decal on any offender’s car.

#2

wow, major moves for Spec e30. It all sounds really worthwhile and really like the I got cheating decal idea.

#3

great news re Bimmerworld.

Who is going to do the shock changing work?
You’re assuming the one legged car will be trailered home …

cheers,
bruce

#4

Carter wrote:

[quote]All:

Later this season, we’re also going to check the front struts, using the same method and we plan to add more Control shocks to the program. And more than one car will be using the Spec E30 shocks at selected race weekends.
.[/quote]

Congrats to you guys for getting Bimmerworld’s support.

I think that shock checking is a good move.

Since the "shock/strut police" :slight_smile: will find it’s way to all regions I am curious how some of the things regarding front struts will be handled. In order to get to the the front shock you need to disassemble few things (as most of people on the list know). That includes control arm-to-strut joint and tie rod -to- strut joint. What if, who ever disassembles this, brakes the rubber boots at either of the two joins - who pays for the replacement parts (ctrl-arm and tie rod and even maybe shop time)? I know that there are tools to prevent this during disassembly (and I have them) but it can still happen. Would this be responsibility of the racer who’s car was chosen for inspection, and thus "cost of racing in SpecE30" or …? Also, will there be a designated person who disassembles this at the track or is it racer’s responsibility? What if the racer is "buy-and-go-racing" type of a person and doesn’t know how to do it? What happens if, who ever is disassembling the stuff gets hurt doing it?

Just so that there isn’t misinterpretation about nature of my questions - I think checking shocks is a good thing, but am not clear how some of the associated stuff will be handled.

Igor

P.S. when will we get revised rules? :whistle: :evil:

#5

Carter wrote:

[quote]All:
Does anyone see a problem with a car being trailered home, missing one rear shock?
Carter
[/quote]

As long as the swaybar is connected I don’t believe the spring would fall out.:silly:

Igor & all,

I had to do this for some purpose I can’t recall. :dry:

No need to mess with a pickle fork. Because the H&R race springs are so short we can get away with the following:

  1. Zip the nut almost off the strut on top of your camber-plate.

  2. Jack corner & remove tire.

  3. Take the top nut all the way off and lower the suspension.

  4. Get the upper perch up, down and out.
    (feed down between loose shock and tower)

  5. Lift the shock back up through camber plate and tighten nut finger tight. (this will let you get more torque in the next step)

  6. Wrench off the gland nut at the top of strut housing. (the spring can be angled so you can get a pretty good rotation on it)

  7. Remove the top shock nut and gently lower the assembly so it doesn’t smack anything.

  8. Remove the camber plate. (feed down between loose shock and tower)( I had IE)

  9. Supporting the strut housing, feed the B A U tiffle dampener through the strut tower like a ballistic missle, make rocket noises if you wish, and grab the spring before it makes a racket hitting the ground!

Not bad at all, except for feeding the perch and camber plate. I think there was only one way the perch would feed all the way. An impact gun would need to be on hand for the top shock nut.

Hope this helps.

#6

Double post. Please forgive.

#7

Awesome news about BimmerWorld! Thanks Carter and James for working something out that is going to be great for both BW and SE30.

On the Cheaters Mark… I like the idea. You could steal an idea from Hawthorne and consider a scarlet "C". But I also like the spin on the Jane’s Addiction song too.

As for checking shocks. I think as long as the car is selected early enough to give the driver and/or the shock-swopper time to have the car ready to go on track without delay or being rushed to get on track… I guess it’s what we have to do to keep SE30 clean.

Too bad we can’t swear an oath and just go race :huh:

#8

Great news on both fronts. I’m glad you’re working so hard to aim this series in the right direction, but I wonder how well the shock program will work in practice.

As someone else mentioned, what if the car is driven to the track (not my problem, but it will be for someone)? What’s the turnaround from Bilstein? What if you’re racing/doing a HPDE the next weekend? If disassembly is on the participant, who is going to watch them? It wouldn’t be hard to have an extra shock that you take to the inspector. The rears won’t be bad, but being selected to change the fronts would be a PITA.

I’m just talking out loud. I’m sure there are other snags we might run into. If this is what it takes to keep SE30 going, then I’m all for it.

#9

How about this as an additional alternative (for those that don’t want to do shock work at the track) - is there any way that my set of shocks could be sent to Bilstein (or a certified tester), tested, and "sealed"? This works easily for me (and any new racer) because my shocks are still on my parts shelf in the garage… We could even get to the state where Bilstein supplies shocks for us "sealed".

cheers,
bruce

#10

Bruce,
all good ideas. Those things crossed my mind too but I didn’t want to make my original post even longer :slight_smile:

It would definitively be nice if we can get Bilstein to sell us "SpecE30" shock, ie. sealed on their end, but I don’t know if we are big enough of a fish for them…Even in case that they agree all currently used shocks should be sent to Bilstein for certification (I would guess that racer would be paying for the round trip, etc. but it shouldn’t be terrible in the bigger scheme of things.) Bigger problem, IMO, is for the people currently racing - what if Bilstein doesn’t get them shocks back on time for next race ( maybe this would be better done in the off-season)?

Another possibility would be to have selected vendors, and we would be buying shocks only from them. Once they receive stuff from Bilstein (or distributor) they would have to seal / mark the shock and sell it to us. There are number of approaches on the market how to do this, and probably cheapest and most practical would be application of special stickers (they leave trace if sticker was removed). That approach brings another set of questions (although workable). Who decides and controls who are "certified" distributors (which is the easy one :slight_smile: ), and assuming that we don’t have a monopoly (one vendor), vendors would have to agree on the sale price of the shock - which involves their margins, etc (with some effort this is also workable). Next comes the trustworthiness of the supplying vendors - will they sell stickers, or altered but otherwise properly marked shocks, to special few people and/or for additional profit. Before anybody gets insulted with this question realize that the "shock checking" program is instituted because racers can’t be trusted (strong words but it boils down to that) - same morals/scrutiny applies to the vendors.

Again I think that the shock check is a good thing (or at least leads to it), but by the same token we are still fairly small series (but growing) and I can’t remember hearing of anyone doing any serious "cheat mod". If they did, it sure did not help them as apparently they are not front runner. All recent accusation of cheating in the series came from outsiders and not from people involved in the series. As series grows the situation might change, and trying to remove temptation from cheating is good, but IMO we shouldn’t rush with it as it’s not currently the problem.

Some food for thought. Apologies if this sounds like rambling but it would be nice if the issue is thought through in depth before it’s written as a rule/mandatory procedure.

Regards,
Igor

P.S. I work as a engineering project manager, so trying to plan for implementation and execution is part of my job, hence all this “questions� : )

#11

Jamie,
clever way of dismantling upper strut. I will look at it too convince myself that there aren’t any extreme angles involved which can damage parts.
I am not sure I got it how do you remove shock retaining collar (the "thing" ,by the lower seat, that threads into strut housing). Sometimes, especially if they are in there for long, they can be extreme PITA to unfasten.

Igor

#12

Igor wrote:

[quote]Jamie,
clever way of dismantling upper strut. I will look at it too convince myself that there aren’t any extreme angles involved which can damage parts.
I am not sure I got it how do you remove shock retaining collar (the "thing" ,by the lower seat, that threads into strut housing). Sometimes, especially if they are in there for long, they can be extreme PITA to unfasten.

Igor[/quote]

The best way is to use a coil over wrench. It’s basically a hook.

#13

Yeah, I know :slight_smile: nice set by the way (you can also use plumber pliers, or hammer and chisel in a pinch), I just didn’t think that there is enough room to do this properly, but I guess there is (with the strut on the car and with lower seat "in the way" ).
Someone has to carry those tools to the track (the proper tool or "pinch" ones).

#14

Carter - Great initiative and thanks for the legwork getting this all together. Regarding the trailering home with one shock issue, could you just get a used stock shock (maybe Al or Bret could supply) as a loaner to avoid any potential issues/damage?

Ed

#15

Igor wrote:

[quote]
I am not sure I got it how do you remove shock retaining collar (the "thing" ,by the lower seat, that threads into strut housing). Sometimes, especially if they are in there for long, they can be extreme PITA to unfasten.

Igor[/quote]
Good point. Let’s see… Loosening the gland nut will rotate the strut into a left turn… Now that I think about it I did have the car on a lift. If only one corner is up the wheels would need to be cranked over to the left before jacking… I forgot about the sway bar! That has to be disconnected for the strut to drop down… I may have loosened the gland nut without putting the shock back up into the camber plate to get a better angle- I don’t remember. I used a pipe wrench to loosen the gland nut at an angle over the lower perch, holding the spring up out of the way with safety-wire. I don’t know if you would be able to fit the spanner (which must be perpendicular) behind the shock. One could be cut and welded so that it would, but a stubborn gland nut would stress it.

My strut had only been in the car for a few hours when I removed it, so it was real easy to break loose. I put just a smidge of oil on the threads for corrosion prevention after cleaning the threads out with a brass brush on initial disassembly.

I’m driving the Teufelauto up for VIR and am volunteering to verify this technique
at the track. It has 3000 miles on the spec suspension in the last year so that will let us know all about corrosion issues. It will also give us a time hack for planning purposes. (and let me verify that I did in fact install the backup washer on the upper perch)

Questioning is good! Makes me remember steps I forgot, and brings to light problems with the plan.

[color=#FF0000]Here’s a picture from last summer’s VIR event. That bearing change is exactly why the Bimmerworld support is so nice. There might not be a gentleman in a different series kind enough to provide his spare, like in this picture.[/color]

#16

glad to see this going in the right direction. Nice work carter! Do the bimmerworld spec e30 championship decals look cool?

^^^^^^^^That saved our weekend for sure. It will definitely be nice to have some spares at the track.

#17

Carter,

Thanks for working with BW to line up a sponsorship deal that will really make a difference to racers every weekend in a tangible way (lord knows I’m a long way off from winning Toyo Bucks, but I’ll probably bust a few things along the way and really appreciate the spares).

I also appreciate your forethought in how to help police the series. I don’t want to sound naive, but I did want to weigh in with a thought:

I’m doing this for fun. I wish I were faster, and perhaps if I were, it would be more of a mix of fun and competition. As the series grows, no doubt we won’t any longer know everyone who’s racing, but at this point the SpecE30 community seems tightly knit. Thanks to this forum, many people building cars are known to us before they even show up at the track. Being friends may not necessarily stop cheating, but I don’t want you to discredit the efforts you and so many others have put forth as ambassadors of SpecE30. I think it would be hard to cheat and then look you guys in the eye when we went out for dinner or beers afterwards. Maintaining an atmosphere of comradery will go a long way towards promoting self-regulation. I don’t want your obsession about cheating to take the fun out of the series for you.

Sasha

#18

Great news on the Bimmerworld support!! They’ve been awesome from the very start of SpecE30.

Carter, sounds like lots of valid questions regarding the how’s of the shock testing - I imagine we’ll all jump in and help the "testee" get the stamped shock on and off. Sign me up for a shock check - I’d be happy to volounteer as a tester if you need.

-Vic

#19

Carter,

If there are folks willing to help with the replacement… I’d also like to volounteer as a tester.

As for another suggestion for the "cheaters mark"… how about a yellow stripe down the back of the car and a potato in the tail pipe :blink: :huh: :stuck_out_tongue:

I’d also like to say thanks to you and Mike for all of your efforts to keep this series true to what drew many of us to SpecE30

#20

Outstanding on the BW sponsorship and parts supplies. Fantastic idea.

As for the shock/strut disassembly proposal. Realize my comments come from someone who 1) can’t understand why a series like ours must resort to such measures (guess I’m Naive) and 2) is not all that mechanically inclined to be forced into a track tear down.

I would prefer a one-time certification process for the car and then a very stiff 0 tolerance for cheating on anything that affects performance. PErhaps immediate season suspension from series.

Just not fond have having to disassemble and reassemble car unless someone else is providing that service. Maybe go the route of a "challenge" where if found in compliance, the challenger pays for any cost associated with the work.

Thoughts.

Keith