VIR next weekend

#21

All:

Thanks for the support in our efforts to keep Spec E30 as legal and as fair as possible. I am convinced that the great majority of our racers want to race fairly and legally.

However, for sure, someone will cheat and they might even get away with it. But if they get caught, the penalties will be severe.

From the Rules…

5.1. Performance enhancing cheating and non-compliance will be subject to harsh penalties.
5.1.1. At first offense, there will be a disqualification of the current race, a disqualification from the previous two races, and a loss of Championship points from those two races.
5.1.2. At second offense, there will be a loss of half of the season points, a two-race suspension, and disqualification from the current race.
5.1.3. At third offense, there will be a loss of all season Championship points, a four-race suspension, a mandatory order to return all prizes, prize money, and trophies, and a disqualification of the current race.
5.1.4. The fourth offense will result in a disqualification of the current race and permanent ejection from the series.

#22

leggwork wrote:

[quote]great news re Bimmerworld.

Who is going to do the shock changing work?
You’re assuming the one legged car will be trailered home …

cheers,
bruce[/quote]

Pulling the rear shock should take about 8 minutes, using hand tools. I’m sure our guys will lend a hand to make it quick and simple.

Carter

#23

you answered the easy question of the two :stuck_out_tongue:

#24

Igor wrote:

[quote]Carter wrote:

[quote]All:

Later this season, we’re also going to check the front struts, using the same method and we plan to add more Control shocks to the program. And more than one car will be using the Spec E30 shocks at selected race weekends.
.[/quote]

Congrats to you guys for getting Bimmerworld’s support.

I think that shock checking is a good move.

Since the "shock/strut police" :slight_smile: will find it’s way to all regions I am curious how some of the things regarding front struts will be handled. In order to get to the the front shock you need to disassemble few things (as most of people on the list know). That includes control arm-to-strut joint and tie rod -to- strut joint. What if, who ever disassembles this, brakes the rubber boots at either of the two joins - who pays for the replacement parts (ctrl-arm and tie rod and even maybe shop time)? I know that there are tools to prevent this during disassembly (and I have them) but it can still happen. Would this be responsibility of the racer who’s car was chosen for inspection, and thus "cost of racing in SpecE30" or …? Also, will there be a designated person who disassembles this at the track or is it racer’s responsibility? What if the racer is "buy-and-go-racing" type of a person and doesn’t know how to do it? What happens if, who ever is disassembling the stuff gets hurt doing it?

Just so that there isn’t misinterpretation about nature of my questions - I think checking shocks is a good thing, but am not clear how some of the associated stuff will be handled.

Igor

P.S. when will we get revised rules? :whistle: :evil:[/quote]

Someone gets hurt??? You guys are on the left coast, that’s for sure.

:laugh:

Checking front struts is a bit down the road so we don’t need to worry about it right now. But your questions are legitimate. And I’m excited to see Jamie’s technique. With air tools at the track this weekend, it’ll be interesting to see how quickly we can get it done.

Regarding the (very slightly) revised Rules, Mike and I are still planning to get it done.

Carter

#25

scottmc wrote:

[quote]…As for checking shocks. I think as long as the car is selected early enough to give the driver and/or the shock-swopper time to have the car ready to go on track without delay or being rushed to get on track… I guess it’s what we have to do to keep SE30 clean.

Too bad we can’t swear an oath and just go race :huh:[/quote]

An oath would be much easier, that’s for sure. And we’ll arrange the timing so no one will feel rushed to get his car back together before a session.

Carter

#26

mskeen wrote:

Good questions.

If the car selected is driven to the track, he can drive home on the Control shock.

Bilstein will turn his shock around in a day.

The selected car will go straight from impound/weigh-in to Spec E30 Central (my truck) and the owner will have time to change clothes (I don’t work on my car in my suit) collect the few needed tools to do the swap - 19 mm socket, 13mm socket, ratchet, and I can zip the center nut off with my air tools. He’ll then get the control shock and will either do Sunday’s race with that, or will go home, depending on when the shock is pulled.

His shock will be shipped next day to Bilstein (at Spec E30’s expense) and Bilstein will ship it back to him either Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday. If it’s not back for the next race weekend, he continues to use the Control shock. Also, before long, we’ll probably have more than one Control shock and will swap more than one.

But the procedure will be very simple and straightfoward.

Carter

ps. If my car gets selected (sometimes we’ll pull the name from a hat), you guys decide who sends it to Bilstein.

#27

edavidson wrote:

[quote]Carter - Great initiative and thanks for the legwork getting this all together. Regarding the trailering home with one shock issue, could you just get a used stock shock (maybe Al or Bret could supply) as a loaner to avoid any potential issues/damage?

Ed[/quote]

Good suggestion.

Carter

#28

MikeD wrote:

[quote]glad to see this going in the right direction. Nice work carter! Do the bimmerworld spec e30 championship decals look cool?

^^^^^^^^That saved our weekend for sure. It will definitely be nice to have some spares at the track.[/quote]

Having spares is a good thing. Did Carlton and I get our coolant hoses back from February?

Yes, the BimmerWorld decals look good and I have various colors.

And I have a few more things to mention…

  1. BimmerWorld is supplying a set of Hawk pads for the random drawing, at each Mid Atlantic weekend.
  2. The decals are required for racing at Mid Atlantic events, for everyone. We understand that some shops compete with BimmerWorld, that have racers in Spec E30, and that’s why magnetic backing was invented. But the decals are required to get on track for each session.
  3. If the Mid Atlantic racers haven’t noticed, the Spec E30 "membership fee" or whatever is eventually done, has been put on the back burner in the Mid Atlantic, because for the support from BimmerWorld.

All-in-all, the Mid Atlantic racers are getting some real value from this program. I’m hoping we will continue to support the companies that support us and as the other Spec E30 regions grow, we will continue to seek programs that help those Spec E30 racers and our corporate partners. If anyone knows of a shop or parts supplier, or other company that is interested in a relationship with Spec E30 and the naming rights for a Spec E30 Region, have them contact me directly.

Carter

carterhunt@aol.com

#29

Ex36 wrote:

[quote]Carter,

Thanks for working with BW to line up a sponsorship deal that will really make a difference to racers every weekend in a tangible way (lord knows I’m a long way off from winning Toyo Bucks, but I’ll probably bust a few things along the way and really appreciate the spares).

I also appreciate your forethought in how to help police the series. I don’t want to sound naive, but I did want to weigh in with a thought:

I’m doing this for fun. I wish I were faster, and perhaps if I were, it would be more of a mix of fun and competition. As the series grows, no doubt we won’t any longer know everyone who’s racing, but at this point the SpecE30 community seems tightly knit. Thanks to this forum, many people building cars are known to us before they even show up at the track. Being friends may not necessarily stop cheating, but I don’t want you to discredit the efforts you and so many others have put forth as ambassadors of SpecE30. I think it would be hard to cheat and then look you guys in the eye when we went out for dinner or beers afterwards. Maintaining an atmosphere of comradery will go a long way towards promoting self-regulation. I don’t want your obsession about cheating to take the fun out of the series for you.

Sasha[/quote]

Sasha:

I don’t lie awake at night but we do want everyone to know that some steps will be taken to keep Spec E30 as legal as possible. It won’t be perfect but we’ll keep at it.

Carter

#30

victorhall wrote:

[quote]Great news on the Bimmerworld support!! They’ve been awesome from the very start of SpecE30.

Carter, sounds like lots of valid questions regarding the how’s of the shock testing - I imagine we’ll all jump in and help the "testee" get the stamped shock on and off. Sign me up for a shock check - I’d be happy to volounteer as a tester if you need.

-Vic[/quote]

Vic:

Thanks for the offer. At this point, we aren’t sure how the car(s) will be chosen.

And the swap shouldn’t take long, especially with a few helping hands.

Carter

#31

smithk3933 wrote:

[quote]Outstanding on the BW sponsorship and parts supplies. Fantastic idea.

As for the shock/strut disassembly proposal. Realize my comments come from someone who 1) can’t understand why a series like ours must resort to such measures (guess I’m Naive) and 2) is not all that mechanically inclined to be forced into a track tear down.

I would prefer a one-time certification process for the car and then a very stiff 0 tolerance for cheating on anything that affects performance. PErhaps immediate season suspension from series.

Just not fond have having to disassemble and reassemble car unless someone else is providing that service. Maybe go the route of a "challenge" where if found in compliance, the challenger pays for any cost associated with the work.

Thoughts.

Keith[/quote]

Keith:

I agree whole-heartedly that track tear downs are no fun. I would much-rather spend time doing other things. Plus, I’m not a tinkerer by nature.

The few items that we check will involve turning a few bolts, removing the AFM boot for a quick bore check, etc.

So don’t be concerned. If your name gets pulled from the hat, we’ll get it done quickly and you probably won’t even break a sweat…unless you’re concerned about the outcome…

:laugh:

Carter

#32

I’ve had good experiences with Bimmerworld so I look forward to their involvement in the series!

#33

Carter wrote:

[quote]Igor wrote:

[quote]Carter wrote:

[quote]All:

Someone gets hurt??? You guys are on the left coast, that’s for sure.

:laugh:

Carter[/quote]

Hey you are the one talking about incorporating (or was it LLC) so that you personally don’t have to do deal with liability stuff. :slight_smile: If someone sues it really will not matter if it is from left or right coast, it will be unpleasant regardless of the outcome. :pinch: Hopefully it will never come to that.
I realize that at times I might pose unpopular questions but that is only because I would like us ("us" as in series) to think things through and do it right first time around (as much as humanly possible). I also don’t want series to loose comradery aspect as well.

Speaking of penalties for cheating, not that I will intentionally cheat, are the penalties "reset" every season or they carry over from season to season (for example if I have one infraction this season, will it count at next season or not)?

Igor

#34

Carter wrote:

[quote]Igor wrote:

[quote]Carter wrote:

[quote]All:

Later this season, we’re also going to check the front struts, using the same method and we plan to add more Control shocks to the program. And more than one car will be using the Spec E30 shocks at selected race weekends.
.[/quote]

Congrats to you guys for getting Bimmerworld’s support.

I think that shock checking is a good move.

Since the "shock/strut police" :slight_smile: will find it’s way to all regions I am curious how some of the things regarding front struts will be handled. In order to get to the the front shock you need to disassemble few things (as most of people on the list know). That includes control arm-to-strut joint and tie rod -to- strut joint. What if, who ever disassembles this, brakes the rubber boots at either of the two joins - who pays for the replacement parts (ctrl-arm and tie rod and even maybe shop time)? I know that there are tools to prevent this during disassembly (and I have them) but it can still happen. Would this be responsibility of the racer who’s car was chosen for inspection, and thus "cost of racing in SpecE30" or …? Also, will there be a designated person who disassembles this at the track or is it racer’s responsibility? What if the racer is "buy-and-go-racing" type of a person and doesn’t know how to do it? What happens if, who ever is disassembling the stuff gets hurt doing it?

Just so that there isn’t misinterpretation about nature of my questions - I think checking shocks is a good thing, but am not clear how some of the associated stuff will be handled.

Igor

P.S. when will we get revised rules? :whistle: :evil:[/quote]

Someone gets hurt??? You guys are on the left coast, that’s for sure.

:laugh:

Checking front struts is a bit down the road so we don’t need to worry about it right now. But your questions are legitimate. And I’m excited to see Jamie’s technique. With air tools at the track this weekend, it’ll be interesting to see how quickly we can get it done.

Regarding the (very slightly) revised Rules, Mike and I are still planning to get it done.

Carter[/quote]We pulled and replaces a front Strut insert at CMP last year on Cobetto’s car when he broke the shaft by cranking the nut too tight. It really isn’t too difficult.

#35

What about us in the West Coast, Socal in particular?
Is BW sponsoring our series here as well? Can ge them to do that?
Is the shox exchange only for the rear? If so, I don’t mind the exchange, it takes me like 15 minutes.
Could we get the shox tested/verified/certified before a racing weekend?

#36

Also, I just received the Group Leaders notice from NASA Mid Atlantic. I have to check everyone’s Comp License (with current Medical) and get a copy of your filled-out Tech Form.

In Feb, we had a Spec E30 meeting - per NASA’s rules - right after the All Hands Meeting and about 8 of the 27 registered Spec E30 drivers showed up.

I know I was a bit blunt about this to the guys who were not there, not because I wanted to scold anyone (we’re all adults) but because I had to stop what I was doing several times Saturday morning to get the stickers back out. It’s not a huge deal but we all have things to do, to get ready for the day.

I will keep the envelope on the fold-out table but it cannot be a free-grab deal. Accoding to NASA, I have to see everyone’s credentials. Let’s get as many guys to the Spec E30 meeting as possible, to make it quick and easy for everyone.

Thanks.

Carter

ps. Our meeting will take about 5 minutes

#37

BETO wrote:

[quote]What about us in the West Coast, Socal in particular?
Is BW sponsoring our series here as well? Can ge them to do that?
Is the shox exchange only for the rear? If so, I don’t mind the exchange, it takes me like 15 minutes.
Could we get the shox tested/verified/certified before a racing weekend?[/quote]

We encourage the SoCal guys to find a Regional Sponsor. I’ll work out the details but you guys know the local shops, tuners, and associated companies that might have an interest in a relationship with Spec E30.

BimmerWorld is the Mid Atlantic Region Sponsor, thus the BimmerWorld Mid Atlantic Spec E30 Championship.

For now, we will dyno the rear shocks, but plan to do the fronts in the future. The only way to know if someone is legal is to check their equipment after the race. If we "certify" a part prior to the race weekend, the driver has time to modify it.

And several drivers have told me about "offers" from shops and individuals to revalve Bilsteins. Apparantly, those shops and individuals have no problem cheating. Thankfully, our drivers do.

Carter

#38

Carter wrote:

[quote]Also, I just received the Group Leaders notice from NASA Mid Atlantic. I have to check everyone’s Comp License (with current Medical) and get a copy of your filled-out Tech Form.

In Feb, we had a Spec E30 meeting - per NASA’s rules - right after the All Hands Meeting and about 8 of the 27 registered Spec E30 drivers showed up.

I know I was a bit blunt about this to the guys who were not there, not because I wanted to scold anyone (we’re all adults) but because I had to stop what I was doing several times Saturday morning to get the stickers back out. It’s not a huge deal but we all have things to do, to get ready for the day.

I will keep the envelope on the fold-out table but it cannot be a free-grab deal. Accoding to NASA, I have to see everyone’s credentials. Let’s get as many guys to the Spec E30 meeting as possible, to make it quick and easy for everyone.

Thanks.

Carter

ps. Our meeting will take about 5 minutes[/quote]

I’ll be there for sure this time.:blush:

If my medical form is current and on file with NASA do I need a copy to show you? I don’t think I made a copy of it.

Also, mailed in my provisional license to NASA to get my Comp license and have not received it yet. I did make copies of this if you need to see.

#39

Carter wrote:

[quote]
For now, we will dyno the rear shocks, but plan to do the fronts in the future. The only way to know if someone is legal is to check their equipment after the race. If we "certify" a part prior to the race weekend, the driver has time to modify it.
Carter[/quote]

unless there is a way to seal the certified part and check for the seal right after the race, or am I being naive?
thanks,
bruce

#40

[quote]nasaregistrar wrote:
We pulled and replaces a front Strut insert at CMP last year on Cobetto’s car when he broke the shaft by cranking the nut too tight. It really isn’t too difficult.[/quote]

Maybe what I was trying to say didn’t come out well…I agree that it’s not difficult (for someone who knows how to do it) but I was just trying to point out that few situations might arise and that we ( well Carter) might plan how to handle them :slight_smile: I volunteer to do it first time I am on the track.

Carter,
can you comment about my question regarding penalties (or perhaps it’s written someplace in the rules but I am just not seeing it)?

Igor