View From the Back of the Pack

#1

Is it to be expected that a large field of racers breeds alot of irresponsible driving?

I witnessed, was involved in, and heard many stories about poor judgement at this past weekend’s race. It does not leave one with the desire to attend again.

Your respose, "That’s cool,stay put in the Southeast and don’t come back."

Time for a sermon?

Several points to consider:
1.Rick Hendrick and Jack Roush were as close to the race as they will ever be…45 miles away at Martinsville.It is just club racing. It is supposed to be fun. This is difficult to learn. I’ll credit my wife for giving me the proper perspective. Why not parade around in a taxi or a police car?

2.By now the racers should know the pecking order of others that are close competitors.If you look in your rearview and a front runner is in your rearview, why do you postpone the inivitable and race them for position? Let them by. Follow them. Learn something. Team up with them by drafting to catch those in front of you instead of eating up your equipment and losing further time to the pack that is ahead of you.

3.Practice is practice.It chaps me no end to find someone racing for a position in practice.Winning the practice session is like being the HPDE champion. Dumb.

4.Driving over your head. See numbers 1,2,3.

Ah, heck.I could go on at length, but like preaching to the choir, those that get it, already got it. Those that don’t, never will. End of sermon.

I’m so ticked-off.

Carter, good luck in assessing penalties for the weekend’s racing.

Regards, Robert Patton

#2

Patton wrote:

[quote]Your respose, "That’s cool,stay put in the Southeast and don’t come back."

[/quote]

<sits back and> :huh:

&quot;don’t come back.&quot; nice. To The Top as the forum speak goes.

edit: forgot to say was good meeting you and Laura and as enticing as you made Roebling sound I am NOT making that drive!

#3

Wow…I sense that there must be a story behind this post…

#4

First off I enjoyed meeting you and Laura this weekend. I am sorry that your long drive to the MA region left a bad taste but I can understand some of your frustration.

I have to admit that I was surprised at the amount of contact there was during the races this weekend. While I was not involved in any myself, I did witness a fair amount from my mid-pack vantage point. This was mostly during the start and first lap of the races.

Everyone needs to remember that we are racing for fun. Having to spend money to have your car repaired is not fun. We are all competitive personalities or we wouldn’t be doing this but we also need to be responsible for ourselves on and off the track. This means not letting the heat of the moment cause you to lose your sense of responsibility.

In my opinion the excuse that contact was just an racing incident should not be used as freely as it is (or not at all). This creates a need for subjective judgement then leads to the possibility of inconsistant rules enforcement.

Enough of that. Personally I had a great weekend and enjoyed racing with all of you who were there.

#5

Patton wrote:

[quote]Is it to be expected that a large field of racers breeds alot of irresponsible driving?

I witnessed, was involved in, and heard many stories about poor judgement at this past weekend’s race. It does not leave one with the desire to attend agian.

Your respose, &quot;That’s cool,stay put in the Southeast and don’t come back.&quot;

Time for a sermon?

Several points to consider:
1.Rick Hendrick and Jack Roush were as close to the race as they will ever be…45 miles away at Martinsville.It is just club racing. It is supposed to be fun. This is difficult to learn. I’ll credit my wife for giving me the proper perspective. Why not parade around in a taxi or a police car.

2.By now the racers should know the pecking order others that are close competitors.If you look in your rearview and a front runner is in your rearview, why do you postpone the inivitable and race them for position? Let them by. Follow them. Learn something. Team up with them by drafting to catch those in front of you instead of eating up your equipment and losing further time to the pack that is ahead of you.

3.Practice is practice.It chaps me no end to find someone racing for a position in practice.Winning the practice session is like being the HPDE champion. Dumb.

4.Driving over your head. See numbers 1,2,3.

Ah, heck.I could go on at length, but like preaching to the choir, those that get it, already got it. Those that don’t, never will. End of sermon.

I’m so ticked-off.

Carter, good luck in assessing penalties for the weekend’s racing.

Regards, Robert Patton[/quote]

Alright I gotta say that without you and laura there this weekend it wouldn’t have been the same. I had an awsome time racing with you on saturday and I felt the both of us gave each other racing room. That’s all i’ll ever ask of anyone during a race. You can make your car as big as you want but if i’m faster I will get by you. (I’m not talking about anyone in particular). You can only hold up someone that’s a second a lap faster than you for so long and you burn up your tires doing so. I’ve done it i’m sure everyone has. I walked away from this weekend with a very small rubber mark on the side of my rear bumper and that is a huge accomplishment IMO. Like patton said this is club racing, If you looked at my car after the first summit race of last year it didn’t look so hot and I lost my points for that race becuase I was over-driving the car. Losing my points for my best finishing position of the season (2nd) really made me think of what I needed to do, to race up front, and not make any metal to metal contact. I didn’t want to get tagged as &quot;that driver&quot; and I don’t think anyone else wants to be &quot;that driver&quot;.

Keep it clean and have fun. I will do my best.

#6

M3Bill wrote:

Astute observation.

It is doubtful that the post will be read by the offending party. Regardless, if I can practice what I preach the there is hope for tomorrow.Sounds like a soap opera and I’m a girlie-man for wallowing in the drama…Wow,guess it is a soap opera with expensive consequences. Stay safe, drive smart.

Regards, Robert Patton

#7

As a post script to the weekend’s activities, and on a positive note, it was great to meet so many new Spec E30 racers.

New faces:
Ken, Dave,Matt,Sasha,Kasey,Brian, JP, Scott were all in the same area as we were pitted.Your hospitality and that of the MA regulars will be remembered long after the track shenanigans are forgotten.

With the big pack that is now the Mid Atlantic norm, I will concede that stuff happens.

Regards, Robert Patton

#8

Patton,
Great summary of what this series seems to be about. I look forward to being able to experience it first hand one day but in the meantime keep it going.

#9

Robert
Thanks for speaking your mind. With the completion of my Spec30 coming up in a month. I was pretty shocking to see and hear about the many &quot;incidents&quot;. So much that I had/have second thoughts about racing. I have always participated in HPDE’s so I can take my car home at the end of the weekend. Like you said it’s club racing, it’s about having fun. I am not looking forward to taking my just finished e30 out and banging it up. Frankly I just couldn’t afford to spend thousands to fix a banged up car, that I just spent thousands to get on the track. I expect some contact. Thanks for reminding and reaffirming what this is all about and that’s to have fun.

#10

Robert,

well said.

I hope you are wrong about the folks who get it get it and those who don’t get it never will- but I understand what you’re saying.

It amazes me the overall attitude of so many HPDE participants who do their best to &quot;win&quot; the HPDE events. It also amazes me that there are folks participating in HPDE’s who ball their cars up into little wads of scrap metal, and then seem to think it’s something that just happens…

Unfortunately, this type of attitude seems to be common in club racing as well- as you have just indicated. I can see that, for the most part, things seem to be a bit more under control in SpecE30 than some other series- but how much sheet metal damage is too much??

It seems that maybe the 13/13 rule needs to be tightened up a bit (??). I think everyone knows how expensive body repair is- and even if you’re just patching up some bent pieces on a SE30 race car to &quot;race car&quot; standards- it ain’t cheap. Simply saying that the series is run under the 13/13 rule is not enough IMHO, it needs to be made crystal clear that car to car contact is NOT acceptable.

I’m not claiming to be an expert on the subject, but I really do not want to see this series become a smash-fest every weekend.

My 0.02 worth.

Bret.

#11

David and Bret, thanks for your comments. As to be expected, the series is growing and with the growth it is evolving.

The judge and jury are still out on how to assess the severity of an incident and the penalty for an incident.Does the jury factor in past driving record ? Now things get subjective.

How do we handle just stupid stuff like passing under a yellow flag? Defer to NASA CCR rules?

How do you handle single car, no damage to others crashes? In the strictest sense, I think that the BMWCCA’s 13/13 would have two racers sitting out 13 months for their mistakes this past weekend. Jens and I would be on 90 day probation. Correct that, Jens may have hit another car…Correct that,I’ve got road rash on my rear quarter panel. Guess I’m gone for the year.

The formulation of Spec E30’s rules for 13/13 and car damage will be an evoling process.

I’ll defer to those with more experience.

Regards, Robert (I don’t want to make the rules) Patton

#12

Double post deleted.

#13

Patton wrote:

[quote]
Regards, Robert (I don’t want to not make the rules) Patton[/quote] So you want to make the rules?B)

#14

Sean, good catch… I’ve edited the poor sentence structure.

To be real clear, I do not want to make the rules.

Thanks, Robert

#15

Patton wrote:

[quote]Sean, good catch… I’ve edited the poor sentence structure.

To be real clear, I do not want to make the rules.

Thanks, Robert[/quote]:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

#16

Well, I guess I’m going to put my opinion out here.

I think that what has been going on lately is just growing pains. It’s hard to know exactly how to handle things when we’ve never had this experience before. While I believe they’re are people out on track that are occasionally driving over their head, I do not want anyone to be disillusioned that this is a potential bad series to run with. Throughout my last year of racing I have had more fun running with everyone than I can ever remember from my DE days.

My opinion is that those people that are driving over their head need to be aware that they are not only effecting themselves, but they could effect someone else too. Remember, if someone shows up in your rear view mirror and they weren’t there before, God did not just put them there. Be kind to the other drivers on track, after all, we all seem to get along.

Most of all, remember this is all for fun. There is no big money prize at the end and while we all enjoy our Toyo Tire Bucks is it really worth bending sheet metal? After all, no car = no need for tires.

I also just want to say how much I enjoy racing with everyone. It has been a great experience and I look forward to many more good clean races in the SouthEast and MidAtlantic.

#17

Hey Laura, I like that,&quot;if someone shows up in your rearview mirror, God didn’t put them there.&quot;

Sounds like we’ve been drinking the same kool-aid.

Warmest regards, Robert Patton