Toyo Issue!

#41

[quote=“Steve D” post=58553]
I’ve heard that the SM6 is the same compound as the R6 but priced to be competitive with the other tires in the SCCA tire test a couple years back.[/quote]

This is correct, the SM6 is a relabeled R6 for the Spec Miata.

#42

[quote=“Elephant4” post=58561]Steve D, whats the word from the Spec Miata guys they surely must have some input on this issue. We went back to the RA1 partly because of their unhappiness with the R888 (and ours of course).[/quote]There hasn’t been any significant bitching about the “new” RA1s lately. Here’s a relatively concise thread with lots of opinions.
Spec Miata tire ramblings
My favorite take-aways from that thread are the people getting either 4 or 20 heat cycles from the SM6. And either 4 or 20 heat cycles from the RA1.

I firmly believe you can overdrive any tire on the car. I feel like I have to take care of the RA1 more than the Hoosiers (I ran them last year in a ‘fun’ race) because the Hoosiers snap right back to grippy even if you overdrive the crap out of them. But the RA1 doesn’t seem to reach the point of no return like the R888s did if slid around a little too aggressively. With the RA1 I can have a couple laps around a start or restart, drive very aggressively, off-line, sliding, then calm the hell down for a few laps and the grip returns.

A word of caution: with Hoosiers you will be starting over in terms of alignment, driving line, entry speeds… I drove them both one weekend and was amazed at how different the car drove on the SM6 and RA1.

Tower - A journey of a thousand miles in the wrong direction also begins with one step.:stuck_out_tongue:

#43

Steve, I suggest you talk to Tom Fowler at OPM who goes through probably more Toyos than anyone I know.

Synopsis: at grippy tracks OPM is experiencing exactly the same thing as I commented on and also mentioned the graining that I experienced but did not mention in my first post. They’ve been saving worn tires all year for NASA Nationals. How long have you guys been saving tires? :wink:

#44

Jeremy - Tom built and preps my cars. I’m in pretty good shape on tires. :wink:

#45

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#46

[quote=“jtower” post=58552][quote=“kgobey” post=58551]
There was talk in the paddock last time out that maybe in the past the good wear was due to aging … this would have been due to stockpiling that was allowing them to cure longer in the warehouse - providing time to age properly before use - whereas this and last year they are getting made and put on cars within 4 weeks.

K[/quote]
i have yet to buy a set of ra1 that wasn’t at least 3-4 months old (based on the date stamp molded into the sidewall). picking up a set from phil this weekend at vir, i’ll see what those dates are.[/quote]Yeah let us know - I am curious

#47

[quote=“Steve D” post=58564][quote=“Elephant4” post=58561]Steve D, whats the word from the Spec Miata guys they surely must have some input on this issue. We went back to the RA1 partly because of their unhappiness with the R888 (and ours of course).[/quote]There hasn’t been any significant bitching about the “new” RA1s lately. Here’s a relatively concise thread with lots of opinions.
Spec Miata tire ramblings
My favorite take-aways from that thread are the people getting either 4 or 20 heat cycles from the SM6. And either 4 or 20 heat cycles from the RA1.

I firmly believe you can overdrive any tire on the car. I feel like I have to take care of the RA1 more than the Hoosiers (I ran them last year in a ‘fun’ race) because the Hoosiers snap right back to grippy even if you overdrive the crap out of them. But the RA1 doesn’t seem to reach the point of no return like the R888s did if slid around a little too aggressively. With the RA1 I can have a couple laps around a start or restart, drive very aggressively, off-line, sliding, then calm the hell down for a few laps and the grip returns.

A word of caution: with Hoosiers you will be starting over in terms of alignment, driving line, entry speeds… I drove them both one weekend and was amazed at how different the car drove on the SM6 and RA1.

Tower - A journey of a thousand miles in the wrong direction also begins with one step.:P[/quote]I spoke to Griswold at Autobahn last week, he says his AIX guys are already regretting moving to Hoosiers from RA1’s…

My best friend K Alex Talkbot won ST2 there in his Vette on A6’s and mounted new A6’s on Sunday for the 2nd race - same for MO last weekend.

I am not even remotely interested in even approaching the idea. If you’re serious about moving away from RA1 - then I’d rather look at the NITTO 01 or the Kumho Victor Racer… Personally I’d rather BFG resurect the old R1…

#48

[quote=“kgobey” post=58589]… won ST2 there in his Vette on A6’s and mounted new A6’s on Sunday for the 2nd race - same for MO last weekend. [/quote]A6 and R6/SM6 are two very different animals. Tire wear on a Vette on A6s vs a Spec E30 on SM6s is a meaningless comparison.

[quote]I am not even remotely interested in even approaching the idea. If you’re serious about moving away from RA1 - then I’d rather look at the NITTO 01…[/quote]Same compound, different tread pattern, corporate cousins (as I understand it).

With Toyo availability (trackside vendors, lots of tires in stock and ready to be shaved since SM uses them, etc.), I would advocate sticking with them even ignoring the contingency program.

Nittos, not so much.

#49

[quote=“Steve D” post=58590][quote=“kgobey” post=58589]… won ST2 there in his Vette on A6’s and mounted new A6’s on Sunday for the 2nd race - same for MO last weekend. [/quote]A6 and R6/SM6 are two very different animals. Tire wear on a Vette on A6s vs a Spec E30 on SM6s is a meaningless comparison.

[quote]I am not even remotely interested in even approaching the idea. If you’re serious about moving away from RA1 - then I’d rather look at the NITTO 01…[/quote]Same compound, different tread pattern, corporate cousins (as I understand it).

With Toyo availability (trackside vendors, lots of tires in stock and ready to be shaved since SM uses them, etc.), I would advocate sticking with them even ignoring the contingency program.

Nittos, not so much.[/quote]Agreed on all points - but until someone comes up with an enduro-type tire - I am free to be convinced that SM6 is an enduro-type tire btw - I feel we are solidly stuck with the RA1.

The NITTO is definately the RA1 in disguise, but with a much better wet weather tread pattern. The marketing of the NITTO is serious, there’s an opening there.

#50

Honestly I could care less about the speed or grip of an R compound. Is there any chance of Toyo letting us race on the R1R? I just can’t believe how well my Kumho XS street tires have held up in comparison to a set of shaved RA1s. I’d be more than willing to give up a couple seconds a lap to get 4 times the wear.

#51

[quote=“King Tut” post=58592]Honestly I could care less about the speed or grip of an R compound. Is there any chance of Toyo letting us race on the R1R? I just can’t believe how well my Kumho XS street tires have held up in comparison to a set of shaved RA1s. I’d be more than willing to give up a couple seconds a lap to get 4 times the wear.[/quote]sinner :angry:

#52

I’ve had great luck with the Kumho XS street tires as well. They’re only 1.5 seconds slower than RA1s at Putnam Park, but they get really greasy if you overdrive them… I ran a set for 1 weekend and then gave them to my dad. He got 8 or so weekends out of them. Being a 180 treadwear tire, they’d probably be pretty good shaved and wouldn’t fall off until they corded.

Me on XS Kumhos is faster than Tower on RA1s; let’s go with them!

#53

I woudln’t see any reason not to get 3-4 weekends out of a R6. I used to get 8-10 heat cycles out of a set in my FWD Civic with no camber. I’d wear out the shoulder and cord it well before the rest of the tire was done.

As someone did already mention though, you need to heat cycle the hoosier and let it sit for a day or two…not much more than that.

A lot of you will struggle up front with tire pressures and resetting alignments/camber settings. It’s a stiff sidewall on that thing, which is great for cars that can’t get a ton of camber.

Ask the Hoosier people if we can get a SE30 discount for bulk orders. I feel like I remember the guy’s name being Jeff Spear? I can’t remember, it’s been a while.

I know I don’t have a lot of say in this since my car hasn’t hit the track yet, but I’d personally like to see something that would last 4 weekends. Whatever that tire is, so be it. I probably won’t make it out this year and will monitor what goes on here. Maybe I’ll just run PTE or whatever until it is all sorted out. Then I can run whatever tire I want.

#54

I currently have available a set of shaved R1Rs if someone would like to experiment with them. A friend of mine ordered them shaved for me (got confused with the RA-1) and he’s sort of stuck with them. I was tempted to try them myself running TT but I’m frankly not a very good driver (yet) and the experiment would likely be wasted on me. If anyone is interested in buying the set PM me. I can deliver to Summit or NJMP.

#55

My Factory Five got significantly faster on the old RA1’s as the tire got older, up to around 40 heat cycles, where it got pretty poor. My thought is the lower the tread got, the flatter the contact patch got, giving more traction, but who knows. I haven’t experimented much with the RA1 on the SE30.

I will say this. My LeMons Thunderbird worked great with the Falcon 615k tire on it. Sticky as a gumball with full tread when hot. I was shocked, and the tire lasted forever.

All of the above said, when I started racing my Factory Five, the spec tire was a Kumho. The nice part of that tire is it came as a slick with two little grooves. No having to shave, getting inconsistent shaves, etc. Its nice to just buy a tire, have it show up, mount and race it.