Toyo Issue!

#21

Phil’s Tire
I’ve bought 4/32 tires before and it’s visually noticeable, these did not look that way.

#22

[quote=“jlucas” post=58516]Phil’s Tire
I’ve bought 4/32 tires before and it’s visually noticeable, these did not look that way.[/quote]

No idea then :unsure:

#23

All of the following is from MY personal view and from MY personal data. Racing on tracks in California and at Miller:

I do have data as I keep and document my tire use over the last 6 years. The Toyo Ra-1 is not the sam RA-1 we used to buy. Toyo Changed the compound as Japan and other countries have made certain chemicals illegal. The TIRE COMPOUND IS NOT THE SAME. That is why it does not perform the same. (retired Toyo Employee has confirmed this) So those of you who think something is different, you are correct.

I now get the groove of doom on the RA1 which used to appear on the 888. Never in 4 years did it appear on the old RA1.

Also we have the data to prove our RA1s were ALWAYS faster as they wore down and were in fact, for US at ANY track we ran, fastest right before they corded.

We have always shaved to 4/32. Tires are in the garage when not racing. Some of our tires have sat for years and still been fast (old compound). We have always needed 3-5 heat cycles before they had significant grip, and to make them last longer.

This NEW RA1 needs more pressure like the 888 did. It takes a few more heat cycles to become fast, and now it does heat cycle out before it cords.

If we all have to run them fine. We will all need to learn to run them correctly as they are. But if they have a shorter life, as they do, and they have become significantly more expensive, as they have, then I am not against looking for an alternative Spec Tire.

#24

[quote=“the Shoe” post=58523]All of the following is from MY personal view and from MY personal data. Racing on tracks in California and at Miller:
[/quote]

This matches my experiences exactly.

#25

I’ve got a Toyo rant for you. Somebody sniped the eBay auction where I was the high bidder to get a set of used treaded RA1s for my rain tires. Guess I will have to buy a new set.

#26

i have two sets of full tread ra1 rains (one 15" very slightly used, one 14" brand new) mounted balanced and ready to go. and i only need one :slight_smile:

#27

[quote=“the Shoe” post=58523]
If we all have to run them fine. We will all need to learn to run them correctly as they are. But if they have a shorter life, as they do, and they have become significantly more expensive, as they have, then I am not against looking for an alternative Spec Tire.[/quote]

What he said. :wink:

#28

The “groove of doom” in R888’s had nothing to do with the compound and everything to do with carcass construction. I also have heard that the RA1 compound did change and that does seem to be confirmed by field reports, but I’ve not heard (up to now) of anyone experiencing the the abnormal wear patterns we saw with R888’s.

#29

I’ve observed vastly accelerated wear with more graining. They ate also less consistent in when they are fast. It certainly does not seem to be until at least 5 heat cycles in.

I’d like to consider a move to the Hoosier SM6. They would require some testing, but they are a purpose built race tire that do not require shaving, and are similar in cost to a shaven RA-1. Hoosier also has a great contingency program.

#30

[quote=“Z3SpdDmn” post=58542]
I’d like to consider a move to the Hoosier SM6.[/quote]

Are these R6s labeled for Spec Miata? Ever tried them?

#31

[quote=“Z3SpdDmn” post=58542]
I’d like to consider a move to the Hoosier SM6.[/quote]

$172 each if my google skills are up to snuff. That’s even more than we pay now. I’d call that a move in the wrong direction unless, as I said earlier, they last longer to justify this added cost. I don’t think we need more grip; that’s not what this discussion is about.

#32

you will HATE running on Hoosiers. Not because they are bad - but because they are fragile. You will get ONE good weekend and 2-4 other weekends where you’d wish for new tires.

You will NOT want to run on ANY of the other tires.

I suspect that you’d prefer to run on NITTO 01 or possibly the BFG… Even the vastly more expensive Michelin SportCup IF they made it in a 15 inch size… Maybe a Kuhmo Victor Racer (not the 710)

But seriously, the RA1 still offers a major cost advantage - but maybe not as wildly good as it used to be…

There was talk in the paddock last time out that maybe in the past the good wear was due to aging … this would have been due to stockpiling that was allowing them to cure longer in the warehouse - providing time to age properly before use - whereas this and last year they are getting made and put on cars within 4 weeks.

K

#33

[quote=“kgobey” post=58551]
There was talk in the paddock last time out that maybe in the past the good wear was due to aging … this would have been due to stockpiling that was allowing them to cure longer in the warehouse - providing time to age properly before use - whereas this and last year they are getting made and put on cars within 4 weeks.

K[/quote]
i have yet to buy a set of ra1 that wasn’t at least 3-4 months old (based on the date stamp molded into the sidewall). picking up a set from phil this weekend at vir, i’ll see what those dates are.

#34

Hoosiers kick ass. When I ran them in 2007-2008ish for enduros they were consistent – provided you put one heat cycle on them, inflate to 50 psi, store for a week or two, then run them.

I’ve heard that the SM6 is the same compound as the R6 but priced to be competitive with the other tires in the SCCA tire test a couple years back. Others say it is a more durable compound than the R6.

But again, given NASA’s relationship with Toyo I would be shocked and amazed if the powers that be would change the spec tire.

#35

I wasn’t suggesting looking into the SM6 because they’re faster. I was under the impression that they were made with the Continental race tire compound, anyway, which is a harder endurance compound. They’re just one option that are out there and specifically marketed toward us and the 1500 SpecMiatas out there…

RA-1’s are $164 each, with shaving, from Phil’s Tire. I can justify an $8 increase in price per tire in several ways.

#36

.

#37

Actually, I am 99% sure Hoosier makes the tire stamped as Continentals used in the Grand Am series (where they change tires in their endurance races). I wouldn’t expect a huge increase in the life of a Hoosier over the RA1. Lots more tread, but they would cycle out first. I haven’t seen many RA1s wear out before they cycle out unless there is an alignment issue.

#38

[quote=“Steve D” post=58553]
But again, given NASA’s relationship with Toyo I would be shocked and amazed if the powers that be would change the spec tire.[/quote]
you are absolutely right, but there’s a zero percent chance that things will change or improve if we sit around and do nothing. clearly many people are not terribly happy with toyo’s current product and we’d all benefit from seeing that improve. a journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

#39

Has anyone else heard that the new RA1 is a R888 in RA1 tread pattern?
However,In my experience, you do not need to run hot pressures on par with the R888’s.
Also, unlike the old RA1’s that were fastest prior to chording, the new RA1 doesn’t work the same way.

#40

This is just what I think, I have not actually heard that for real anywhere. I’ve been saying this for a couple of years now. Once we went back to the RA1 from the R888 they heatcycled out the same as the R888. I had never had a Toyo heat cycle out on me until we went with the R888. Sure the performance changed over the life but the tire never suddenly went off and made the car very loose, reminded me of a heat cycled out hoosier.

Steve D, whats the word from the Spec Miata guys they surely must have some input on this issue. We went back to the RA1 partly because of their unhappiness with the R888 (and ours of course). To me the RA1 in its current form is no better than the R888. Its not awful but the reason the spec classes all feel in love the RA1 was because it remained so consitent over many heat cycles. You could still spend money on tires but the difference between old and fresh was much smaller. Also running them to 20 heat cycles was not a problem.

Regarding the Hoosier SM6, I doubt I could get more than 2 weekends out of these either but I’m open to suggestions. I’m sure Ranger would test them :slight_smile: