To shave or not to shave. That is the question.

#1

A very experienced guy is telling me that I should practice on full tread tires, and save my shaved tires for qual and racing. He says that shaved tires provide less life by half. Further, he says that heat cycling the tires can as much as double tire life.

As usual in this obsession I find that all the experienced guys I know disagree with each other. So what do you guys think?

Do full tread depth tires last longer? If so, how much? Some will say that full tread depth tires got hotter and will therefore wear faster.

Does heat cycling add to longevity? If so, how much? What’s the best way to heat-cycle?

#2

I’m hardly an expert, but here’s what I’ve gathered.

  1. Shaved tires actually last longer (start at 4/32).

  2. You can heat cycle your own tires. Mount them on the car and drive around for 20 minutes. All the tire shops do is load the tire up by pressing it against a roller, and then running it. You can do this just by driving on it.

Sasha

#3

In my limited experience, I would agree with Sasha’s comments for most tracks. Full depth tires are best saved for wet track experiences with the exception of one track…(CMP). I personally don’t care to use a tire beyond 23-25 heat cycles regardless of how it looks. Many of us had severe handling problems at CMP with tires that had plenty of tread left. Travis dominated CMP with a full depth tire.

#4

Stephen Foushee wrote:

That’s not entirely true and pretty circumstantial evidence. I won the race on shaved tires. My guess is a lot depends on how hard you are driving–full tread will probably last longer if you aren’t burning it up. Especially if you heat cycle the tire enough that it gets really hard–it won’t wear out.

Personally, all my tires are shaved except the rains.

#5

Hells bells Mike, you could win a race on rims. :wink:

#6

Scott Gress wrote:

[quote]A very experienced guy is telling me that I should practice on full tread tires, and save my shaved tires for qual and racing.
[/quote]

I’ve done both with Toyos. I’ve started with full tread and run them till they cord and I’ve gotten them shaved. Most people will tell you that they last longer shaved because you can overheat the tread blocks running them full tread in the dry. I’ll also add some of the people saying this have never run a full tread toyo in the dry down to the cord. I think it depends on the the driver, but in my experience they have lasted just as long starting full tread. Having said that I don’t think you should bother with full tread tires except for the rain or unless you are doing DE’s. Actually if its your first time on R-Compound tires I would highly recommend a full tread toyo to a beginner because they will last forever and will get steadily faster as they wear down. Anyway we’re racing here so get them shaved, depth is up to you. I would get 5/32 for maximum life, but I think you’ll find 4/32 will give you a good balance of performance and still plenty of life.

Scott Gress wrote:[quote]
He says that shaved tires provide less life by half. Further, he says that heat cycling the tires can as much as double tire life.
[/quote]

Depends on the tire, I would be surprised if he is talking about toyo’s in particular. I certainly wouldn’t run Hoosiers without heatcycling myself. And I don’t mean a tire rack heat cycle, I mean a proper track heat cycle. Anyway even without heat cycling toyo’s (which most agree they don’t need) will last a long time.

Scott Gress wrote:[quote]
As usual in this obsession I find that all the experienced guys I know disagree with each other. So what do you guys think?

Do full tread depth tires last longer? If so, how much? Some will say that full tread depth tires got hotter and will therefore wear faster.
[/quote]

See above, how long they last is up for debate but I would still get them shaved whether they last longer or not.

Scott Gress wrote:[quote]
Does heat cycling add to longevity?
[/quote]

In most cases yes, but doesn’t seem to effect toyo’s much. To be fair its been so long since I properly heat cycled a toyo I couldn’t tell you for sure as I’ve always been amazed with their durability without doing anything. Heat cycling is a pain, for instance when I club raced on Hoosiers. I had to bring a brand new set that I would heat cycle for the following race weekend. It took a lot of switching tires and meant I only had space for 1 race set and 1 practice set because 1 set was just to get ready for the next race weekend.

Scott Gress wrote:[quote]
If so, how much? What’s the best way to heat-cycle?[/quote]

Best way to heat cycle is on the track, get them slowly upto speed and then do a couple of flat out laps, then bring them in remove them from car and store in the shade. Don’t use them again for about 48 hours.

#7

I agree with Simon.

Also, with this topic line I couldn’t resist a little humor here;


Shot at 2007-10-18

:stuck_out_tongue:

Don

#8

Don Stevens wrote:

[quote]I agree with Simon.

Also, with this topic line I couldn’t resist a little humor here;


Shot at 2007-10-18

:stuck_out_tongue:

Don[/quote]

Why is she shaving that otter?

#9

That was funny as heck…

First, tires. You can get away with running full treads at CMP as the surface is so crappy. You want shaved tires to race on, no doubt. I have some that were shaved 5/32nds and are still going as practise tires after a year. After a while you will want one set of 15’s at 3/32nds, one set of 15’s at 5/32nds and a set of 14 full treads for rains (cheaper wheels!)…Another thing we have been doing is running junk tires for track/test days to save our good tires…if you get a set shaved 3/32nds and only use them for qualiying and sprints they will last all year.

The hard part is finding all those wheels…hence the "bandit " edition 15x6.5’s that you see on the Malt liquor tech cars on Fridays and some sat mornings.

Second, Otter??? That is a muskrat for goodness sake.

Al

#10

Oh, someone is going to ask why you would want the 5/32nds…remember when Travis and I were the front row of the combined groups 1 hour enduro at The Rock?

5/32nds is what you want if it looks like it might rain, or is drizzling with some puddles, etc.

Al

#11

A couple of years ago the Toyo rep was at a CCA event and said that they do not need heat cycling. I don’t heat cycle in the exact meaning but I do know that new Toyo’s are squermy the first time out so I use the new ones for a practice before a qualifying or race. But no heat cycling and resting for 24 hrs.

Full tread Toyo’s will have a tendincy to chunk under race conditions due to overheating from tread squirm. At least the way some of the guys at nationals drive they would.

Michael

#12

Heat Cycling just ruins that golden lap you can get. Want max speed from an RA1 shave to 3/32nds install on car in grid and take directly on track for qually. Anything after this and the tire IS slower.