Standing starts

#1

Why we have no business doing them:

http://youtu.be/K2rcB2AcC7c

Can you imagine that incident in our crap cans with the safety crews 2 min away?

#2

Welcome to 2 years ago. :slight_smile:

a few points about standing starts. If you feel its to dangerous, then you shouldn’t race. Racing in inherently dangerous and people do die whilst racing.

next point, we do not have (most of us anyways) 600hp. At the speeds we get at a standing start, a failed start is easily avoidable and if there is contact, wont be anything like what happened there. Knock on wood, ive yet to see any sort of terrible incident with NASA, of any series that does standing starts. Rare, but can happen, certainly. Using this video to demonstrate the dangers for SE30 racers ir like…well… doesn’t apply really.

#3

It may sound sadistic but I watch crash videos (regardless of how old) to remind me just how dangerous it is to race. I feel it helps program my mind while on track to not take unnecessary chances by acknowledging the risks involved. It’s not fool proof of course as anyone can make mistakes or drive above their means occasionally, including myself, but every little bit helps. Just like we practice exiting the car under time, awareness of consequences helps train the brain.

If a car spins out in front of you and you can’t miss it, you hit it. This is a fact that we all know and acknowledge and accept as part if the deal. The difference TO ME (read: my opinion) with standing starts is that we are creating a situation that increases the risk of an accident, which contradicts the philosophy of putting safety first. The risk of stalling and being a target is an added risk that does not exist in rolling starts. Since missed shifts can occur in either scenario, they are an unavoidable risk, just like someone spinning in front if you.

I will still race and have fun and do standing starts if I’m told to, I’m just not a fan of creating risks that can be otherwise avoided.

#4

Starts are always dicey. On the one hand a standing start increases the likelihood that someone gets rear-ended, but on the other hand it means turn 1 speeds are slower. I don’t know how the trade-off falls out. I’d guesstimate in the SE we do 3 standing starts each year. Did one at Roebling a couple weeks ago. I think the field does perceive them as a bit more risky, I don’t recall that they’ve been a source of incidents tho. Could be we’ve just been lucky.

#5

Agreed and I don’t know either. I would say though that I would trade turn 1 speed for a stalled car. We are already at a somewhat reduced speed in turn 1 on a rolling start anyway. If it were up to me we would never do them, but I don’t speak for the group I’m sure. Just food for thought next time it comes up.

#6

Agreed and I don’t know either. I would say though that I would trade turn 1 speed for a stalled car. We are already at a somewhat reduced speed in turn 1 on a rolling start anyway. If it were up to me we would never do them, but I don’t speak for the group I’m sure. Just food for thought next time it comes up.[/quote]

IMO standing starts are a fun part of the SE30 mix.

Besides having a fraction of the power of V8 super cars, we have –

no wings to obscure visibility
real bumpers and sheet metal, rather than fly-weight composite bumper covers and panels
fuel tanks in front of the rear axle

That probably was a 60 mph hit. The composite bodywork on the trailing car shatters on impact, and what’s left of the front end submarines under the back of the stalled car, apparently unimpeded by anything solid. I agree that standing starts are riskier than rolling starts, but I don’t think we can place much weight on this video.

BTW, I’m surprised how the fuel cell on the stalled car seems to pop like a water balloon. Yikes.

#7

Count me as not a fan of Standing Starts…

Mainly due to the extra stress on driveline components. After spending many years bracket/drag racing, I know how brutal a hard launch can be on a clutch, transmission, u-joints, diff’s…etc. Racing is already hard on components, why add the extra wear and tear?

We do both up here, standing starts with NASA, and rolling starts with Conference and SCCA. I prefer the rolling start, even though I can usually get a good jump on everyone with a standing start…

#8

I was waiting for someone to cry about all the “sddes stress” with the standing start. LOL!!

If you dont want any wear and tear, park the car. Everytime you start it, it has inherent wear and tear. This is racing guys, come on now.

#9

[quote=“SurferShawn” post=76779]I was waiting for someone to cry about all the “sddes stress” with the standing start. LOL!!

If you dont want any wear and tear, park the car. Everytime you start it, it has inherent wear and tear. This is racing guys, come on now.[/quote]

Dude WTH?! I thought this group was a bit more grown up than that… All I did was give the reason I am not a fan of them, no need for insults and attacks.

To answer your personal attack, yes, racing is dangerous and hard on equipment, but why make it harder on it then it needs to be? We could all rev our motors til the valves float and just replace the motor after every race, but that is just wasting money for the sake of wasting money.

I get really tired of the response “well it’s racing and supposed to be expensive, if you don’t like it, don’t do it.” And yet, people then turn around and complain that there is no one to race with or events get removed because of lack of participation.

No need to respond, we already know your stance.

#10

I apologize. It was not ever my intention to insult you. however I fell insulted when people make these statements. These drive-trains are quite robust and can, and do handle frequent standing starts without issue. (of course now ill blow a driveshaft or an axle because I said that.)

Id appreciate if if you didnt put words in my mouth. I never said “well it’s racing and supposed to be expensive”. I also hear people complain about not wanting to do Qualifying races. “That’s unnecessary wear and tear on the race car”. I thought we go to the track to race? Racing at this level can be affordable. It is affordable.

I never attacked you, I offered my opinion and then offered up a possible solution to avoid your issues. Thats all.

#11

Standing starts is not hard on equipment. I ran the same stock clutch and pressure plate for over three years. We do standing starts two or three times a weekend. I replaced the clutch when I changed the motor. It still looked in great condition.

Speeds entering turn one are much lower when doing standing starts. We do staggered standing starts. Each cars front bumper is at the rear bumper of the car alongside them. This spreads the cars out in a much safer manner. In rolling starts cars are allowed to be touching the rear bumper of the car in front of them. Combine this with higher turn one entry speeds, and rolling starts are more dangerous.

For me, the biggest factor for doing standing starts is they are just more fun.

#12

I like the staggered idea.

#13

I like the staggered idea as well, keeps from getting re-ended by a car with higher hp.

As stated before, standing starts are to MY advantage, since I still retain a lot of that old reaction time from my drag racing days. I can usually gain several places just on the start alone.

To play devils advocate, even rolling starts can go horribly wrong.

This happened last year at one of our races in PRO3, someone accidentally grabbed the brakes instead of the gas.

[video size=100 width=425 height=344 type=youtube]nghC2sem2ec[/video]

It was not pretty.

Luckily, all the drivers involved are good friends, and the oops driver made amends to those involved, and everyone filed it as a learning opportunity.

#14

I figured if it was good enough for F1, then by god its good enough for us!

Really I was mainly trying to avoid a big pileup in turn 1 and (knocking on wood) in the last 4 years its worked perfectly well every time. Most of that credit goes to the drivers all working together to get thru T1 cleanly. (This is amateur road racing after all.)

#15

Actually we SpecE30s can’t because our ECUs have a rev limiter. What kind of ECU are you running? :silly:

#16

Depends on which trim I am racing in, I have two ECU’s in the car - 1 for PRO3 (chipped) the other for SE30 (stock).

But with either, my tired ass motor would probably float the valves at 6K… One of these days I will have the extra money to rebuild it.

#17

Here is a recent flying start incident.
Happens sometimes but they can all be avoided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYgN2rt37nw#t=118

#18

I love standing starts, I wish we did them every time

That may be the Motocrosser in me though.

#19

[quote=“78kona” post=76790]Standing starts is not hard on equipment. I ran the same stock clutch and pressure plate for over three years. We do standing starts two or three times a weekend. I replaced the clutch when I changed the motor. It still looked in great condition.

Speeds entering turn one are much lower when doing standing starts. We do staggered standing starts. Each cars front bumper is at the rear bumper of the car alongside them. This spreads the cars out in a much safer manner. In rolling starts cars are allowed to be touching the rear bumper of the car in front of them. Combine this with higher turn one entry speeds, and rolling starts are more dangerous.

For me, the biggest factor for doing standing starts is they are just more fun.[/quote]

Agreed 100%.

I think they’re both safer and more fun. You arrive at turn 1 at a lower speed, and if I squint really hard I can pretend like I’m in an F1 start.

My clutch is on it’s 4th or 5th season and I’ve got no slip yet.

#20

[quote=“SurferShawn” post=76847]Here is a recent flying start incident.
Happens sometimes but they can all be avoided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYgN2rt37nw#t=118[/quote]

Everything is more intense in German.