Spec E46 anyone??????

#21

Jason, crossover coud/would be an important item. CCA racing needs bigger fields and I think James is really involved with CCA?

Good luck.

RP

#22

[quote=“Patton” post=73767]Jason, crossover coud/would be an important item. CCA racing needs bigger fields and I think James is really involved with CCA?

Good luck.

RP[/quote]

If we get lucky and this works out right, the cars could be Spec but still somewhat competitive in BMWCCA I-Sport and NASA GTS2. That would help people who want to run both organizations, and also give early adopters of SE46 some places to race until the class fills up.

But as Jason mentioned - there’s no perfect way to overlap them, so it’ll be a compromise one way or another. We’re working with a few I-Sport folks in BMWCCA now.

#23

[quote=“Patton” post=73767]Jason, crossover coud/would be an important item. CCA racing needs bigger fields and I think James is really involved with CCA?

Good luck.

RP[/quote]

bmwcca rules are written to allow multiple platforms to compete against each other which is a fundamentally different philosophy from spec racing. however beneficial it may be, making the two align is easier said than done but we are looking at it.

#24

I was looking at some stats of CCA racers (counting drivers by region/class, etc.) and it reinforces that CCA has (IMHO) too many classes. In South Atlantic, there are almost 80 racers, but spread across 15 classes. Only two classes have 10 or more registered cars. North Atlantic is 110 and 21, with 3 double-digit classes.

Jason, with the CCA philosophy, it doesn’t seem there would be such a dispersion of cars across multiple classes, but there is. Maybe they need to take it a step further, and go strictly power/weight in Sport, Prepared and Mod, regardless of platform, which would theoretically allow more in-class racing. Maybe the guys who already run with them don’t care, but attracting casual racers to CCA from NASA or elsewhere is always a struggle because most of the outsiders I think want class racing, but it’s hard to fit in with CCA.

#25

+1

They seem to have a philosophy that adding classes adds racers. Instead, adding classes dilutes racers.

#26

[quote=“Patton” post=73763]Heck, I could build one of these too.

RP[/quote]Just mention this to your son-in-law, and the Danny-mobile could be stripped for racing in a weekend!

#27

[quote=“ctbimmer” post=73772][quote=“Patton” post=73763]Heck, I could build one of these too.

RP[/quote]Just mention this to your son-in-law, and the Danny-mobile could be stripped for racing in a weekend![/quote]

Yep.

Settle on a spec-type platform that, when equipped with the right stuff, whould be THE choice for an aspiring ISport car.

I know, easier said than done.

RP

#28

Been looking at prices of these cars and I was amazed how cheap they have gotten already. Found on for $4700 that would be a great driver. Easy to find them in the high 5 range. I wonder how the electronics would be as a race car. They are not as simple as our beloved E30’s

#29

i bought a 01 330i sedan for $3800 a few weeks ago. has 205k miles so some of the wear items (shifter, suspension, brakes) are tired but those will all be replaced anyway. otherwise drives great, been puttering around town all month. this is the prototype car, i’ll start prepping it for track duty in short order. bit of a shame as everything works as it should, interior is all intact, freezing cold a/c, etc.

#30

Find me one like that at 4k or less and I will start building one immediately. The shop has already welded in the reinforcement plates for the rear in a couple of E46 cars and one complete rollcage in the E46.

#31

http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/cto/3974889955.html

bet you could easily walk off with that for 4k

#32

this seems as good a time as any to remind folks that spec e46 is charging ahead. we’ve been working extensively with james clay and bimmerworld fully supports the new class, i believe they will start building a prototype car as soon as a good donor is acquired. nasa-ma, se, and fl regions will welcome the cars when they are built, and we’ll be working on bmwcca support shortly. we’re still ironing out a few details in the rulebook but the main details are on the website http://spece46.com.

#33

How much faster do you anticipate these cars will be than an e30? Not to rain on your parade but one reason Spec e30 and Spec Miata work is that the speeds are reasonable for running in a tight pack. Not sure I would be comfortable running close thru south bend at 10-15mph faster…but then again maybe I am just a p…

#34

won’t really know until we test but i’m guessing in the 2:12 range with good tires. there isn’t any aero so cornering speeds won’t be hugely faster but the good suspension should enable better car control and placement.

#35

In!

#36

In. B)

I am super excited about this class. I worked with Carter on the original Spec E30 rules, and I have done several other rules sets, mostly for BMW CR since then that have since also experienced significant growth. For too long in club racing, we have all accepted that “spec” prep means “low-level” prep. I soapbox this constantly - a solid plan with a clean slate can give you tremendous bang for the buck. And Spec doesn’t have to feel like Stock - we can have a cost-effective car that feels and drives like a real racecar!

The most fun race I had in 2012 (including Conti, the Rolex, Chump, BMW CR, etc) was against Jason Crist in a pair of GTS-2 E36 cars. We had slightly different engines but very similar cars, pushed each other for our qualifying laps, and we weren’t 15’ apart for the duration of the race - all while clicking off 2:11s at VIR full in the middle of summer in traffic. Great fun until someone brings a better platform into GTS-2 and screws it up. So that planted the seed for both of us for how to race the technical level of cars we like with less of a spoiler atmosphere - spec style…

The focus is a faster, more fun car for those that want a faster car - as Jason said the goal is NOT to create a competitor to SpecE30 with similar speed cars and similar level parts. I like having a real race suspension - give me 3-Ways so I can make the car act like a racecar, but remove the canister from that $7500 3-Way and you have the MCS 1WNR with 85-90% of the capability at 1/3 the price - and 200% (actual tested number…) more than any needle-valve coilover setup - the goal is bang for the buck. I love driving really fast cars and the newer platforms (E46, E92) are awesome, but I don’t love $4k tire bills for a weekend with a car at that level.

We have hashed this out for months. Evan and Jason had a very solid plan and I have helped to make sure it addresses majorly the issues and problems my customers typically have. The draft rules package does a solid job of closing loopholes that escalate price and cause problems based on my experience in the industry. Durability is a major focus - the group of people that want to go faster but deal with tweaked-out cars is not big enough to be successful.

I am excited by the result. And I’m putting my money where my mouth is and I will be building one starting next week that I will run and rent on occasion, and contribute to the group on how to maximize the rules within the rules.

#37

That’s awesome James. Spec E30 should take more cues from your philosophies on what a Spec series should look like.
-Vic

#38

Not to rain on the spec e46 parade…but do we need yet another series?..

i just view this as another series try to take potential competitors from Spec e30, last time I checked this was the Spec e30 forum…why are competitor series even allowed to be discussed in this forum?

bad enough we have GTS, PT classes, spec 3 and the orginal spec e30, why do we need another BMW spec series?
my thoughts, not that anyone cares :wink:

I for one never want to move to a class that is more expensive or faster…why
a. i don’t want to spend any more money ($2500 for shocks,…no thanks, my first race car didn’t cost that much)
b. faster car means faster use of consumables
c. higher speeds mean bigger impacts, no thanks
c. heavier car means faster use of consumables
d. more sophisticated shock package means more cost

if i had my druthers we would have two spec classes, spec e30 and spec miata and everything else would be classed under the PT/ST formula

would generate more cars in each class, more people to race against (which is what I want) and more contingency, which we all want.

just me two cents worth…

#39

[quote=“harper” post=74924]Not to rain on the spec e46 parade…but do we need yet another series?..

i just view this as another series try to take potential competitors from Spec e30, last time I checked this was the Spec e30 forum…why are competitor series even allowed to be discussed in this forum?

bad enough we have GTS, PT classes, spec 3 and the orginal spec e30, why do we need another BMW spec series?
my thoughts, not that anyone cares :wink:

I for one never want to move to a class that is more expensive or faster…why
a. i don’t want to spend any more money ($2500 for shocks,…no thanks, my first race car didn’t cost that much)
b. faster car means faster use of consumables
c. higher speeds mean bigger impacts, no thanks
c. heavier car means faster use of consumables
d. more sophisticated shock package means more cost

if i had my druthers we would have two spec classes, spec e30 and spec miata and everything else would be classed under the PT/ST formula
[/quote]

Where to start… I suppose by saying that I don’t fully disagree with you. We initially didn’t pursue this idea, because as SpecE30 racers ourselves, we also loved to talk smack about field sizes and say things like “Do we really need another class” but unfortunately the answer might be yes, in order to get back to no. If you think a little less defensively, and more constructively, you may see that the goal here really isn’t to take competitors away from SpecE30, it’s actually more likely to attract them from GTS, and ST, and others you agree are under-fielded and overly expensive. It may even attract some new racers all together.

No one said Spec racing was cheap, they said it was Spec. There are a lot of folks in the more expensive but less competitive classes who wish they had a more competitive class to race in, but don’t want to drive a 25-30 year old tin can on a suspension that is kind to call “street performance”. There’s no argument against your not wanting to spend more money, or go faster, or hit things harder… that’s why Spec E30 and Spec Miata are great and shouldn’t go anywhere. There are however a lot of people who want a real race car, AND competition like they can get in Spec E30 and Spec Miata. What we’re hoping to do is create a class for those people. Just because you have a $20-30k budget rather than a $7-15k budget doesn’t mean you should be banished to the hells of PT/ST/GTS open rules and power/weight.

I can tell you from our experience in the last couple months, there aren’t a lot of Spec E30 racers talking about jumping ship. There are already some GTS guys and BMWCCA guys looking for donor cars. Personally I think you should view this as part of a bigger picture “Spec Solution” to uncompetitive club racing, but that’s up to you.

PS: SpecE30 is welcome to delete this thread if it’s not constructive. We’re all club racers, we’re all NASA competitors, we might even find our classes on track at the same time. Again - I think you’re assigning your own personal values to everyone else. Jason and I started in SpecE30, I’d like to think we have a lot of pals here, and that they would be interested in seeing the development of something like this. Perhaps I’m wrong.

#40

I appreciate the response, as I said these are my thoughts, no idea if anyone agrees and I expect some people disagree.
you made my point in part, I don’t think its a question of stealing current racers, its a question of steakling GTS and BMWCCA guys who potentially might jump into Spec e30 but for an alternative such as this.
Mark hillburger is a perfect example, ran GTS, decided cost too much;/car not competitive and he jumped ship…would have jumped to Spec e30 but since SPec3 was there he built a car for that. One less regular spec e30 car/driver we have now.