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ilateapex wrote:
[quote]How about sharing the optimum system with the rest of us. Such as pipe size, number and muffler type. Those of us getting ready to build a system would love to know.
Thanks,
Michael O.[/quote]
+1
Just let us know what the "best" set up is working and those who are finishing the cars can have this made.
ddavidv wrote:
More than likely, the 325i will be a dual pipe setup and the 318i will have one pipe.
Carter
BETO wrote:
[quote]ilateapex wrote:
[quote]How about sharing the optimum system with the rest of us. Such as pipe size, number and muffler type. Those of us getting ready to build a system would love to know.
Thanks,
Michael O.[/quote]
+1
Just let us know what the "best" set up is working and those who are finishing the cars can have this made.[/quote]
First of all, we never found out what is "best" because we didn’t do any testing. Secondly, the Spec E30 philosophy doesn’t necessarily dictate that we spec the "best" exhaust. I know this is tough for some to contemplate but we are not really concerned about how fast the cars go down the track. Our primary objectives are low costs, reliability, and close racing. If the "best" exhaust system costs more, we might not choose that design. Remember, it’s not about the cars, it’s about the racing.
Of course, we won’t choose some cheap, small system that chokes the engine, just because it costs less. But performance is only one factor and is not the factor.
And if we all have the same, why does it matter if it’s the "best" design?
But yes, we understand why you guys want the best design, within the current Rules. But like the rest of us, you’re on your own.
Carter
So if I can’t get the best, what is the cheapest. I hate to have to scrap my new exhaust for the spec exhaust right after I build it.
Michael O.
ilateapex wrote:
[quote]So if I can’t get the best, what is the cheapest. I hate to have to scrap my new exhaust for the spec exhaust right after I build it.
Michael O.[/quote]
Cheapest is probably to gut the cat on the stock setup. I might start with that just to get running.
Elephant4 wrote:
[quote]ilateapex wrote:
[quote]So if I can’t get the best, what is the cheapest. I hate to have to scrap my new exhaust for the spec exhaust right after I build it.
Michael O.[/quote]
Cheapest is probably to gut the cat on the stock setup. I might start with that just to get running.[/quote] Do some research. You will not find a lot of gain in the exhaust in a stock E30…the factory got it right. gut the cat and replace the muffler if you want to save a few pounds.
That’s what I would do. Gut the cat and go racing.
Last year during dyno testing at the track, we found that cars with a stock (very old) cat didn’t turn good numbers.
Carter
Just an FYI for anyone who decides to remove their stock cat- send it to me and I’ll send you some $$$$$
Seriously, a stock BMW E30 325i/is cat is worth ~$80 to the scrap guy here locally. Whatever you do, DON’T throw it away or let the muffler shop guy have it for free- at least get them to cut your repair bill some if they do keep it.
Oh, and I’m serious- if you want to send me your old cat, I’ll sell it to the scrap guy and send you some $$$$$$.
Bret.
Since the rules thread is on a roll, I would like to throw in another comment/request. Since deleting my steering wheel lock, my igniton switch has a tendency to stick in the last 30 deg of rotation, continuing to activate the starter. I could replace the key cylinder/housing likely for $$$ or just put in a push button /ignition toggle switch for the starter for $30.
9.3.3. does not mention any changes to the ignition/starter/electrical system, so in the spirit of the rules, I will not install the switch I purchased (but would really like too!)
Could this be considered for the next round of edits/changes?
Ed
Does anyone know how difficult/expensive it would be to simply replace the stock ignition switch? If you can buy a used one from Bret (with that car’s keys) for a few dollars and simply unbolt the sticky switch and bolt-in the used one, it might be easier and less costly.
Carter
With a little electrical knowledge, installing a push-button type ignition is cake, and is actually fairly cheap - I know of at least one of the original Spec E30’s that has one installed (one of our fellow drivers lost the keys, and putting a switch and a button in was a LOT easier).
Replacing the ignition switch is a huge PITA, when you consider that you have to re-key (all the doors and trunk too), and wire it etc…
I think the suggestion to add this to the rules is a good idea, even though I wouldn’t mess with the ignition switch on my car.
-Vic
#325
My major concern with dyno checks is pretty much the same as everyone else, What if there is a short field? There could easily be a greater than 6% variance between engines, especially one with 175K miles on it like mine or perhaps one with a bent valve. I had a bent valve on my last car, the car ran fine, idled fine, but would have been down on power on a dyno pull. Where are we getting this 172 hp suggestion from? Are these pulls being adjusted for crank hp by some formula?
Regarding diffs, I recommend doing away with locked diffs, that is spending money for no good reason.
We are getting way too nit picky on mirrors. There is no difference between multi panel mirrors, single convex mirrors or stock mirrors. They don’t make the car go faster. They are a personal preference for safety. My car has a 14 inch flat panel mirror from BRE that allows me to see both sides of the car better, especially the passenger side with a single glance.
If someone thinks someone else is cheating, let him file a protest, put up the money for the inspection, and then get on with it. Take a good hard look at yourself first if your are slower than everyone else. Bobby Bitterman drove my car at Barber and was 2 seconds faster than me. That is a lot and it made me realize that I had a lot of improving to do before I worried about spending a bunch of money on my car to make it faster.
Proeagles wrote:
[quote]My major concern with dyno checks is pretty much the same as everyone else, What if there is a short field? There could easily be a greater than 6% variance between engines, especially one with 175K miles on it like mine or perhaps one with a bent valve. I had a bent valve on my last car, the car ran fine, idled fine, but would have been down on power on a dyno pull. Where are we getting this 172 hp suggestion from? Are these pulls being adjusted for crank hp by some formula?
Regarding diffs, I recommend doing away with locked diffs, that is spending money for no good reason.
We are getting way too nit picky on mirrors. There is no difference between multi panel mirrors, single convex mirrors or stock mirrors. They don’t make the car go faster. They are a personal preference for safety. My car has a 14 inch flat panel mirror from BRE that allows me to see both sides of the car better, especially the passenger side with a single glance.
If someone thinks someone else is cheating, let him file a protest, put up the money for the inspection, and then get on with it. Take a good hard look at yourself first if your are slower than everyone else. Bobby Bitterman drove my car at Barber and was 2 seconds faster than me. That is a lot and it made me realize that I had a lot of improving to do before I worried about spending a bunch of money on my car to make it faster.[/quote]
Amen, brother!
BTW, how do you gut the cat? I might as well keep the oem exhaust. What do you mean by dual pipe for the 325? 2 pipes all the way to the end, or can you merge them at the end?
Carter wrote:
[quote]Does anyone know how difficult/expensive it would be to simply replace the stock ignition switch? If you can buy a used one from Bret (with that car’s keys) for a few dollars and simply unbolt the sticky switch and bolt-in the used one, it might be easier and less costly.
Carter[/quote]
It’s not hard. I would much prefer it. In my 944, I have that setup and it’s nice. Turn on the master power, push the button and viola, your are running. No need for keys. In fact, I still store the key in the hatch pushbutton. It’s been there for 3 full seasons and never lost it.
Here’s how I have it wired up in the '44:
Starter,
"Water" - wired to the high-speed on the wiper
"Rear-End Cooler" - Wired to the coolsuit
"Fan" - Wired to the electric fan
"Nitrous" - Just for fun, I had a spare :whistle:
Eric - just to qualify your comment, "It’s not hard…" to install an accessory panel. In my experience, replacing the ignition cylinder/mechanism is hard and as Vic noted - a PITA!
I did look at prices for the ignition switch - new replacement - $51 to $147 depending on what parts are bad. Used (ebay) $29 to $49. Labor would be much greater to replace the cylinder/mechanism as well.
Ed
I’m in favor of making the ignition button legal also.
Also think mirrors should be made free choice.
Seem like reasonable small changes.
That being said, I will be fine with however the new rules turn out and appreciate the difficulty of drawing the line between pleasing the crowd and not tinkering and changing too much, too often.
Tom
Mike finalized the few Rules changes and I need to look it over. He has found things that I missed and I have found things that he missed.
But no one ever got any grief about the number of panels on his mirror…and we changed that one in the '07 Rules.
We’ll get it on the site in the next day or so.
Carter
Changing the ignition (key) switch is NOT that hard- all you need is a piece of stiff wire the right size and good aim to hit the sweet spot that releases the old key switch from the column. Once you get the old one out and realize how it releases- you’ll see what I mean.
Having said that, I would agree that there is no reason that I can see to not allow the use of generic starter/ignition switches. (though keep in mind that I sometimes have trouble with the reasoning that excludes OEM basketweaves :whistle: )
It can be done VERY inexpensively and it’s definitely NOT a performance enhancement.
Bret