rules meant to be broken

#1

How about making a list of the rule changes everyone wants and does anyway and are free.

I’ll start but a lot of these are your ideas not mine.

Remove valve cover to Throttle body tube. The rules say if you disconnect the tube you have to run it to a tank but don’t say anywhere you can disconnect it.

Remove charcoal canister. Its just dead weight anyway.

Remove valve body heater. it does nothing but prevent water vaper from crank from freezing.

Remove horn. Who has a horn button on they’re steering wheel anyway?

#2

I’m on board with all of that.

#3

Are all the common mods that are illegal but you guys on the forums tell me are fine done buy the top guys or just the midpack and slower guys? I’m not accusing anyone who said go ahead and remove that of not being one of the top guys, but the midwest region probably won’t have more than 3 starters next year and I think the rules say the top 4 get inspected post race. It would put my mind at ease if everything you guys have told me no one would protest me for were actually allowed in the rules.

#4

Don’t get too worked up by this stuff, just get your car ready and go race. After a couple seasons ask the guys in your region their thoughts on little stuff.

You’ve got years of tinkering with your car ahead of you. If you plumb the depth of every mystery, ambiguity and great idea now, you’re good to be bored to death in 2 months.

#5

No spece30 has run in the midwest other than GreatLakes crossovers. I’m not the most experienced racer but I have the most e30/spece30 experience in the Midwest until Kgobey moves back to Chicago. I can email them and say this is what I removed so don’t protest me but what if I want to go to nationals? Do I need to find all that stuff and put it back in. Although it’s a 10 hour drive MidOhio is on the Midwest schedule so why not go if I can.

#6

It should just be addressed and done with.

That answer sounded like something you’d hear from congress. :wink:

#7

Don’t try to go “sideways” on the rules. Do the best job you can of making the car 100% legal. To do otherwise leaves you open to a DQ or protest.

#8

Originally I went exactly by what the rules said. With the engine bay repaint everything got pulled out. I’ll stick to running the ccv to a catch can since the rules halfway say I can do it. I originally did that mod after realizing my junk motor blew a quart of oil in my throttle body per weekend. I probably will just keep the passenger side horn in place. Do I really need both horns? Throttle body heater will remain absent for the purpose of less cooling system failure points. That leaves the charcoal canister which wasn’t more than a lump of rust anyway. I think it’s cheaper to remove the old rusty and rotten unneeded parts than replace them.

#9

[quote=“turbo329is” post=62583]That leaves the charcoal canister which wasn’t more than a lump of rust anyway. I think it’s cheaper to remove the old rusty and rotten unneeded parts than replace them.[/quote]I think you will find the rules committee (Carter and the series directors from the regions) quite receptive to rules suggestions. Some of them even may be approved if you present a rational argument and the mod can be done for free.

Posting about it here is fun for off-season banter but doesn’t effect a change in the rules.

#10

Taking off my SD hat and puting on my racer hat.

Make the car legal. Period. It may not be at Nat’s, or even a crossover, but you might get some guy who was only racing in your region 1 time call you out. I’ve seen it happen where a guy comes in from the “outside” and has no stake in anything but tire money for one weekend and he starts protesting everthing everyon that beats him.

#11

My car is built to the letter of the rules. My only annoyance is the retention of the power windows vs being able to swap in manual regulators, but I accept it. I’m a solid mid-pack guy, but that’s due to the driver and not the car. I’d bet Grace could take my car to the front with little complaint. Don’t stress over the miniscule.

#12

[quote=“cosm3os” post=62589] I’ve seen it happen where a guy comes in from the “outside” and has no stake in anything but tire money for one weekend and he starts protesting everthing everyon that beats him.[/quote]Those under 40 may not be able to relate to this…but it’s easy to recall as a youngster when the generic control measures for shitheads was a whack-in-the-head. Being one of the smallest kids in the area I wasn’t in the enforcement arm of the policy, but it did motivate me to behave reasonably.

#13

Being lazy I wonder if you could point to the rules section that mandates the power window regulator? I had the same thought about switching to manual.

#14

Hey Ranger - I grew up in a neighborhood that had the same code of conduct that you describe. Often times I think it was probably the best environment to grow up in.

Shoot your mouth off - swift consequences… Amazing how functional our group was…

And yes, I’m over 40!

#15

Being lazy I wonder if you could point to the rules section that mandates the power window regulator? I had the same thought about switching to manual.[/quote]Appendix A lists all the eligible models (all 325i/is), which I believe all had power windows from the factory. The rules permit removal of the window mechanisms, but not replacement with manual.

#16

Thanks Steve. Seems weird to be able to remove but not downgrade. But the rules is the rules I guess.

#17

[quote=“RRhodes” post=62642]Thanks Steve. Seems weird to be able to remove but not downgrade. But the rules is the rules I guess.[/quote]I would imagine that the rules dudes would make this concession to the folks who want to keep operable windows but want to be able to drop weight. Most of the recent builds I’ve seen ditch all the window stuff in favor of NASCAR bars.

Submit a request to make this clarification/allowance and you’ll probably get it.

#18

Being lazy I wonder if you could point to the rules section that mandates the power window regulator? I had the same thought about switching to manual.[/quote]Appendix A lists all the eligible models (all 325i/is), which I believe all had power windows from the factory. The rules permit removal of the window mechanisms, but not replacement with manual.[/quote]
I agree with Steve. However, playing devil’s advocate for a moment…

The manual windows IIRC were only available in the pre-'87 cars. That means that a person could get an '84 swap the drivetrain and ABS over from an '87, and they’d have a legal car. Here’s the relevant section.

9.3.2. Engine Swapping
9.3.2.1. Any BMW E30 car that was imported to the United States through a franchise BMW
dealer, may be used in Spec E30 competition, if the Spec E30 approved engine and
drive train have been installed.
9.3.2.2. The car shall meet the weight minimum of the chassis, model and year for which the
engine was originally available in the chassis of a US model, and additional OE 325i
parts may be installed. (i.e. it will assume the characteristics of the car from which the
engine was donated).

Note how it says that additional parts “may” be installed, not “must” be installed as part of "assuming the characteristics of the '87 that the drivetrain came over from. Therefore this is telling us that there is no requirement to bring other parts over from the '87, I mean other than what is explicitly specified…engine, tranny and diff. Therefore the manual door cranks could stay, and therefore the ABS could remain absent if the VIN of the car identified it as pre '87.

We’ve gotten into these tussles before over the rules. Folks get all wrapped up into what the rules are “supposed to say”. It doesn’t matter what they are supposed to say. It only matters what they actually say. English isn’t like mathmatics where it’s entirely free of ambiguity, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to parse a sentance. Certainly there was no intent to create this loophole, but until it is closed, a loophole it remains.

#19

I agree with you to a point Scott, but I’m not sure about your statement:

I’m an engineer and spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with the disagreements between various interpretations of ambiguous English and the precise functionality of devices defined by mathematics and physics. Seems like there’s almost always room for (mis)interpretation.

[quote](i.e. it will assume the characteristics of the car from which the
engine was donated).[/quote]

For instance prior to your post I would have interpreted the above to mean that no matter what chassis I used, when swapping in the '87 drivetrain I would now need the power windows too to meet the spirit and (arguably) the letter of the rules. Now you’ve introduced what seems like a valid argument that in fact it creates a loophole I could “exploit”. Makes my brain hurt.

#20

Dear all engineer types, lawyer types and Ranger too:

With the absurdity of the window example, you’ve finally moved to the bottom line: You can’t write a rule for everything so you better hope your regional director has a good grasp of common sense.

If Johnny goFast shows up and wants to protest the lack of windshield washer hose or a horn that is missing on a car…well I’m betting that the RD can find someting missing on Mr. goFast’s machine. If it is really ugly, you can note it in the log book(s) (being fair to everyone), and look for the offending horn to be on the car at the next race. Be serious with the rules as it is necessary. No one wants a DQ, we all want to race. I would tell Johnny goFast to go sit in the corner before I would compromise the camaraderie of my fellow SE racers.

Next point, none of the above make a squat for difference. I could give Skeen, Cobetto, Grace, Palacio, Schwartz, etc., my sunroofed, power windowed, heatercored #8 car and they would still run rings around me in the non-equipped #241. (Oops, the 241 might be missing the horn too.)

I think you get the drift.
RP