Road Atlanta Results

#81

FARTBREF wrote:
[quote
when I bumped that Miata that was swerving all over the track, I am willing to bet his fastest laps of the weekend were right after that!

Al[/quote]

So we can blame you for the revenge? :woohoo:

#82

I know this is probably akin to sticking my head in a hornets nest but I do want to address some of the things that went on last weekend between the two classes.

First of all, some background…

This was one stop on the Mazda Teen Challenge series (google it). It is a smalltime ladder series with mazda support. The winner gets a chance at the mx-5 car they are giving away at the end of the year (60kPlus).

Most of the participants are young and relatively inexperienced. Some are VERY VERY quick. Most had not seen the track before this weekend. Others had.

Saturday:

The first red flag incident was caused by Crispin Beaver(teen challenge) going off at T1 by himself. This caused the red flag and the consequent bunching up of the field. I believe the second incident wouldn’t have happened if we had our normal separation.

The second red flag was between the spece30, the 944 and the Miata of Ryan Ellis (teen challenge). My view of the event would have been a straight forward punt by the miata driver had it not been for the extenuating circumstances of the bmw driver tapping the brakes in an unexpected place. There is an exception to the punt rule in the CCR that involves this and I believe this is why it was ruled a racing incident. I was not a part of these discussions.

I did speak with Ryan about my concerns with his driving. I thought he was overly aggressive, didn’t leave enough room for unexpected events and was discourteous to his fellow drivers. I think I made it through to him because his driving on Sunday was much better behaved.

Sunday:
The incident between Devin Cates (#21) and the BMW (ScottMC?) was not what I would characterize as intentional. Just for the plain reason that it doesn’t make any sense. When you are trying to win a race, it isn’t the fastest way to go thru another car. It kinda slows you down. That being said, I do think it is a classic definition of a punt as outlined by the CCR and none of the exceptions apply in this case. I do think ScottMC was trying to be courteous and that Devin misjudged his approach and punted the bmw. As I said to him, I think it was overly aggressive and probably not well thought out. I don’t think it was intentional. I also talked to him about after race discussions and respecting his fellow drivers.

Devin was DQ’d from the sunday race. This is the prescribed penalty from the CCR. He will also receive three points on his license (ScottMC will accrue one point per the CCR).

Now, I realize this weekend the BMW’s got the worst of it from the miatas and I apologize for that. But the asshattery pendulum swings both ways. There is plenty of stupid to go around with both classes. I saw or was part of several “dumbass” moments involving BMW’s this weekend. Granted, they didn’t result in contact or red flags, but they could have. My only point is generalizations like: “Miatas are nuts” or “The Japs attacked us” don’t really help and are inaccurate in the long view.

We are the two biggest classes, we NEED to work together to solve any problems we have. Chuck and I speak regularly on this subject and we will be speaking more to see how we can improve the situation further. For my part, I did tear some new assholes in both the meeting and individually on Sunday and I think it helped. No one got off “easy”.

This DQ and others like it will send messages to drivers. That should help as well.

These are both great classes and we just need to work together to make sure they continue to be great. I’m always willing to listen to suggestions etc. If you have one (other than telling me to get bent) feel free to drop me a line.

Hope to see you guys out there soon…

Jason Holland
NASA SE Spec Miata Director

#83

It seems ill-conceived to mix two series that have fundamentally different philosophies in the same race session - fun,clean racing vs. why-yes,-I-am-the-next-Schumacher.
bruce

#84

Jason, I appreciate your effort to be fair to both sides.

I’m pretty quick to try to see things from the other guys’ point of view. But the behavior of your boys was over the top on Sat. I’ve been excrutiatingly considerate of the Miatas running in their own races, and that was true Sat as well. But after that first red a pack caught me for as I exited turn 2 on the next several laps. And the stunts they pulled between turns 2 and 5 were reckless.

It goes without saying that there are ways to indicate with your car’s position that you intend to pass. With a first year racer like me, a person might have to make that indication unsubtle. But when several cars dart to your left and right then they are taking a risk because they have no idea how you characteristically take that corner, they are taking a risk because you might not have figured that they were planning that, they’ve taken a risk because they executed very quickly (darted), and they’ve taken a risk because they have bracketed you on both sides.

I hit my brakes once heading into the S curves too. I was being swarmed by Miatas and had to move off line to avoid contact. And that forced me to shed a couple mph or I wasn’t going to make it.

They darted in time after time, just assuming that I would give way. And I did. Because I was trying like hell to be considerate.

The E30’s in the rear were trying to get those Miatas thru us. We worked hard to give them room. How hard did they work to restrain the red haze?

I think that “plenty of stupid to go around” might be too diplomatic. As someone who has been REALLY considerate of Miatas coming thru in past races…on Saturday after the restart the Miatas were indeed nuts.

Consideration is a 2 way street. If you are considerate to me but I treat you poorly, pretty soon you are going to treat me poorly too.

The groups continuing to be considerate to each other is important. But a couple bad apples could cause enough antagonism that all by themselves they poison the whole relationship.

It would have helped if the E30’s had found out before the Sunday race that the Miatas had been read the riot act. That would have mitigated the natural human tendency to let gripes fester for this past week.

Would it have been possible, after the first race, to restart the race in 2 groups? That would have helped.

#85

Nicely stated Scott.

#86

Knowing all the circumstances it makes more sense why everything happened the way it did. I also appreciate you coming forward and describing what was going on, but I think there should have been a lot better communication BEFORE the race so that everyone knew what they were about to get into.

Face it, teen racing drivers are two things:

  1. usually FAST (because they’re fearless)
  2. usually STUPID (because they’re fearless)

They should have been aware that not everyone was after the same goal as them (the MX5 ride) and we should have been aware that they were on track with us.

I’ll be honest… I never had a major problem on either day with any Miatas, but it was painfully obvious that some of them were less than cordial on the track. After watching some of the videos I’m really amazed that there wasn’t more of a fuss at the track. There were a lot of cars torn up out there and I hope the teenagers racing on daddy’s budget are aware that this was about more than someone being “in their way”.

Again, I do appreciate you posting and putting a little more perspective on everything. I hope in the future everyone has figured out that there has to be a LOT more communication when things like this are going down.

#87

Had I known that those kids were on the track, I would’ve stayed in HPDE for the weekend. It was my 1st time at Road Atl. The fact that our accident was ruled a “racing incident” does not sit well with me at all. I thought the CCR’s were pretty clear when I read them. Maybe this series is non-contact in the same way basketball is supposed to be a non-contact sport. Again, had I known this, I would have picked somewhere else to race.

Bob C.
007 Goldmember
R.I.P.

#88

Jason,

Thanks for the low-down on the situation. It sounds to me that you, Chuck and NASA are all over this. And as long as all of us go out there… play by the same rules, keep our eyes open and drive with the safety and wellbeing of those around us… both groups should be able to continue to share the track without anymore of these kinds of weekends.

Truly appreciate the post.

#89

I can vouch for Jason’s integrity and motives. He started as a competitor of mine in SM and has become a good friend. Now that I am diving into SE30, I think I will be able to give perspective from both sides. Or I’ll be twice as guilty.:blink:

I think NASA does a great thing by having cars paddock as a class. Also, the driver meetings as a class help me remember those are people underr those helmets. Maybe a combine SE30-SM meeting is in order. All the guys I’ve met on the E30 side have been gracious.

I truly believe 95% of the guys in both classes are out there to have fun, race hard, but take the car home in one piece. The more familiar we are with each other, the less prone we will be to take dumb chances.

And thanks to Chuck for working with Jason on helping us all get along.

Steve D.

#90

Restarting in two groups is not practically possible in the time that we have. That would require a re-grid for the most part. It might possibly work if the restart was EARLY in the race but I don’t see race control going for that at all.

Jason

#91

I for one, did not know the Challenge people were gonna be there until 4-5 days before the event when I noticed ALOT of new people and put two and two together. To be honest, I didn’t consider the ramifications and didn’t think to notify anyone else. Live and learn.

Now, do keep in mind that many of the Challenge racers were well behaved and raced well. Overall, I don’t think it’s a good idea to group them with greybearded hobbyists etc. for lots of reasons.

I was told that feedback for the Teen Challenge should be sent to:

Ron Cortez

gtamerica1 at aol.com

I would also suggest cc’ing the national staff as well. Their info can be found here:

http://www.nasaproracing.com/aboutnasa/regions.html

#92

Bob,

I’m really sorry about your car. Unfortunately, as much as we try to keep contact out of this sport, it still does occur. It IS part of the situation. We can only try to minimize it.I know this is no consolation.

If there’s anything I can do to help, please let me know.

Jason

#93

ScottMC,

We are doing our best. Thanks.

#94

First of all, Bob, I hate to see that your car got damaged so severely. You have always been one of the nice guys at the track. You know that I’m just up US 1 and will be glad to stop by to help.

Also, a couple of years ago, the Mid Atlantic Region (Autobahn Group, specifically) experienced some troubles between the Spec E30 and 944 racers and Dave (944 Series Director) and I made a serious effort to keep the lines of communication open. We had a few joint-class drivers meetings, he and I met many times, and we also had an open discussion whenever there was contact between cars of the two classes.

For sure, these simple steps made a huge difference in the racing and our weekends are much better because of it. Recently, we’ve had a few incidents and Dave and I continue to talk openly when it happens. And despite our best intentions, it will happen. But we can try to keep it to a minimum.

It’s good to see Jason here on the board and it looks like the relationship will get better.

As was written before, you guys (both classes) are the big players and working together, even with different racing philosophies, will help make your weekends more fun and more safe.

Carter Hunt
Spec E30 National Series Director