Rear Camber/Toe Adjustment

#1

Now that the rules allow the slotted tabs for rear alignment, how many folks are going with the IE kit vs accentric bushings from AKG for example?

#2

I’m hatching a plot with Chuck Baader to do something along these lines. My rear alignment has always been goofed. Do some reading at BF.c tho, because some folks have had problems with the slotted tabs such that they had to go to a softer bushing to handle the rotation of the trailing arms now that the pivot points were a little off-axis.

That is to say…the slotted tabs allow you to move the pivot points of the rear trailing arm. But once you move them, the two pivot points don’t share a common axis anymore so there’s going to be stresses at the pivot points that a bushing will have to absorb.

I’d be curious to know more about how camber is impacted by compression of the suspension. Because, when you think about it…your static alignment doesn’t really matter. Well, unless you’re into that “stance” idiocy. What matters is what happens to your alignment when the suspension is under load.

Slots help you fix your static alignment. But I wonder what they might do to your dynamic alignment. What if moving the pickup points caused a reduction in camber gain under load? But only noticeable under load. As in like, when you need it.

#3

Eccentric bushings have been legal for a long time. The problem with them is that alignment of the rear wheels is a pain and they tend to drift out of alignment. The slotted tabs make adjustment for toe and camber essentially independent and they are less likely to drift out of adjustment.

#4

jim - yes i’m aware that accentrics were allowed previously. my original plan was to use them but i’m also aware that they lose settings as you mentioned. hence the renewed interest in the slotted tabs as they are now legal.

ranger - I’ve read those threads re bushings rotating/shearing. what’s your plan to re-mediate for that?

#5

I think that there’s a number of variables in that problem.

  1. Maybe if you weld the slots on cleverly you can minimize the amount that you force the pivot points to be “off-axis” when adjusting toe and camber.

  2. The more you adjust the more off-axis you go. So maybe if I don’t get greedy I won’t have too much of a problem.

Chuck says that his hard rtab bushings don’t bind. And if he could pull that off on his car, I figure that he can pull it off on my car too. Note that I’m not using the Ireland kit. Chuck had something laying around that used the same idea. Further questions on that would have to go to Chuck.

One of the joys of working with someone who clearly knows what they are doing is that it makes for short conversations.

Chuck: I have a rear alignment kit like Ireland’s that is now legal.
Scott: I’d like to buy it.
Chuck: Do you want me to install it too?
Scott: Yes.

Almost poetry.

#6

chuck? more details on your kit?

#7

Ranger wrote:

DeVinney’s conversation is far shorter. It goes like this:

“Hello Tom? I need my car to be faster than I am now. Your check’s in the mail.”

#8

[quote]DeVinney’s conversation is far shorter. It goes like this:

“Hello Tom? I need my car to be faster than I am now. The blank check’s in the mail.”[/quote]
Fixed it for you.

#9

jlevie wrote:

[quote][quote]DeVinney’s conversation is far shorter. It goes like this:

“Hello Tom? I need my car to be faster than I am now. The blank check’s in the mail.”[/quote]
Fixed it for you.[/quote]
H8rz. It’s almost like Geegar tapped my phone? :blink:

PS - I’ve got $20 that says Geegar makes the SAME call by March to have Tom fix his CMP damage. Who wants some of that action?:woohoo:

#10

Steve D wrote:

[quote]jlevie wrote:

[quote][quote]DeVinney’s conversation is far shorter. It goes like this:

“Hello Tom? I need my car to be faster than I am now. The blank check’s in the mail.”[/quote]
Fixed it for you.[/quote]
H8rz. It’s almost like Geegar tapped my phone? :blink:

PS - I’ve got $20 that says Geegar makes the SAME call by March to have Tom fix his CMP damage. Who wants some of that action?:woohoo:[/quote]

except he wont be calling Tom, it will be Hey Brendan! and any of you that want the rear toe /camber kit installed in the ATL area can feel free to call me as well
Ive got lot of experience putting those kits in
BD

#11

I had tabs bent a couple of years ago for my car, and use commercially available camber correction kits. Every kit I have seen, except Korman, use the commercial kits. Korman did weld the eccentric to the bolt head which made it almost impossible to get a wrench on the head to make adjustments. The commercial stuff works just fine and does not bind or move. CB

#12

The kits are pretty basic. Just a rectangular piece of steel with two tabs bet up to catch an eccentric bolt on either side of the mount. I think it also runs roughly though the stock location so you are not really moving the mounting locations that much. I guess you could use that to abuse the rule a bit but I am not sure how much benefit you would get form extending the locations a bit. The further you move them the more stress and that could cause issues.

The total adjustment at the bolts does not seem like much. Quarter inch max maybe at the eccentric. Its obviously magnified at the end of the arm but it probably cant add too much stress at the pickup. At least if its installed right and the car is not already bent or has a bent subframe or arms.

Granted the kits I have seen were installed and it’s a bit hard to see what’s going on when installed and laying on your back under the car.

If I were to install new bushings now and the sub frame will be out I would rather install the kit or something similar vs using off centered bushings. Its going to work better in the long run.

#13

What type of rear toe are you guys running?

#14

The least you can get away with. If your alignment guy can get 1/16", have him do it, as the camber and toe curves really pick up during compression of the suspension. Note…you do not want toe out…that will scare Superman!!!

Find a damn good alignment shop with laser equipment and a tech who will work with you. Note, it is a real pain in the ass to toe the rear because of the location of the toe bolts and very limited access. I had to make two wrenches to get the job done, and loaned them to my guy to do Allen’s car. Chuck

#15

Go for zero toe and the camber is what the camber is.Unfortunately this is a weak point (the lack of adjustment whether by the weld kit or eccentrics) of the e30. On camber for the rear, I vote for the least amount one can dial in.

RP

#16

cwbaader wrote:

[quote]Note…you do not want toe out…that will scare Superman!!!
[/quote]

Oh so true. I had .50 before I got the AKG RTB eccentrics and the rear end did not like the follow the front of the car through a turn :pinch: not fun

#17

If you are not running 3+ degrees all the way around, you are not using the tire. CB

#18

cwbaader wrote:

Picture? That outer nut on the outboard eccentric doesn’t seem to want to fit anything other than an open end wrench on it.

#19

yeah, i’m interested in this too, just got the weld on kit on the car. i figured 0 toe and 3 degrees camber?

#20

Take a box end wrench and grind it down until it’s just thin enough to fit on the outer nut.