R888's

#1

Since the exhaust stuff has died down, I feel like we haven’t had enough to complain about.

Lots of discussion about these at RRR past weekend.

Seems to me that:
they’re more expensive
don’t last as long
don’t seem to handle heat as well
aren’t as consistent when the do fall off

I’ve gone through a few now. I had one set that seemed to hold up well but that was in the cooler months. As the track and outside temps have climbed seems like they get greasy quick.

Any opinions from the peanut gallery?

#2

On that note:
I am killing these expensive tires doing DE’s. I don’t see a point in keeping top notch new tires on my car in an non-competitive environment. That being said, I am more than willing to buy up anyone’s used R888 or old RA1’s with life left in them. I don’t want dead flat spotted tires but, 50%-25% life left in them is fine.

I flat spotted one at RRR this past weekend and need at least one for the time being, but would be glad to buy up more :slight_smile:

Coryr@yearone.com

Cheers

#3

Well, I think I told anyone who would listen the weekend how I feel about the tires. they suck. I even called Seth yesterday to get his feedback on what the World Challenge teams are saying on how to make them work. he seems to think that the compound and the carcass construction just don’t work together as well as they did with the RA1.

I was much much happier on the 3 weekend old Ra1s than I was on new R888.

#4

I have to agree. I was shocked at the end of my first weekend on the 888 compound just how much they had worn.
I think we should be able to run RA-1s as long as they can still be found.

#5

Why don’t we lobby for a tire change?

#6

Interesting points.

So the options would be amend - 9.3.9.1. As of June 2, 2008 the Toyo R888, size 205/55/14 or 205/50/15 must be used in
competition. The Toyo RA-1 may still be used in practice or other non competition
sessions.

So that RA1’s can be used as available. Of course then we create a run on those, or start running into supply problems.

OR

Consider other alternatives. I’m not sure what if any possibility these options have, but interesting discussion points.

I assume if the general consensus is that the R888 provides no performance boost, and is more expensive, and less durable that it would no longer fit the Spec E30 charter.

Is there any special relationship with Toyo that prohibits this? I understand that the Toyo folks have a very good contingency program and heavily support the National Championships. Both are good things overall, but apply to a minority of the Spec E30 community.

#7

CHeck the national site as I am fearful that there is a rule about the spec series and having to run Toyos.

I agree that the contingency is great, but well I never get close enough to the front for that effort. Congrats to those that do and subsequently enjoy almost free sets.

#8

I had a brand new set of shaved 888’s this weekend, It looks like they wore pretty quick, got greasy quick but I may have had too much pressure in the LF…

I am for running one of the Toyo STS class tires…I think it is called T1R or something…150 treadwear, you would have a pack of e30’s going thru the corner with all 4 tires squalling

AL

#9

FARTBREF wrote:

[quote]I had a brand new set of shaved 888’s this weekend, It looks like they wore pretty quick, got greasy quick but I may have had too much pressure in the LF…

I am for running one of the Toyo STS class tires…I think it is called T1R or something…150 treadwear, you would have a pack of e30’s going thru the corner with all 4 tires squalling

AL[/quote]

The T1R is a pretty good tire. I used to run those and the T1S, which is the older version of the T1R. A decent summer performance tire that is Great in the wet. It would make it so that any current SE30 lap time would never be challenged, but it would be interesting as a cheeper alternative.

It’s very disheartening to here the less than stellar reviews :unsure: I’m about to buy my 1st set of never been used tires… and from the sounds of it… it’s not much to look forward to.

#10

scottmc wrote:

[quote]FARTBREF wrote:

[quote]I had a brand new set of shaved 888’s this weekend, It looks like they wore pretty quick, got greasy quick but I may have had too much pressure in the LF…

I am for running one of the Toyo STS class tires…I think it is called T1R or something…150 treadwear, you would have a pack of e30’s going thru the corner with all 4 tires squalling

AL[/quote]

The T1R is a pretty good tire. I used to run those and the T1S, which is the older version of the T1R. A decent summer performance tire that is Great in the wet. It would make it so that any current SE30 lap time would never be challenged, but it would be interesting as a cheeper alternative.

It’s very disheartening to here the less than stellar reviews :unsure: I’m about to buy my 1st set of never been used tires… and from the sounds of it… it’s not much to look forward to.[/quote]

I thought the tires were pretty good. However, I have not run them on a really hot day and have only run two races on them. FWIW they were shaved to 4/32 when I bought them.

#11

MikeD wrote:

I’ve had the same experience. I’ve done 3 heat cycles. I ran old RA1’s at putnam on Saturday, and relatively new R888’s on Sunday. The R888’s were much better and stayed consistent throughout the whole race. They went off slightly after 4 laps but not unlike every other r-compound I have driven. It was a fairly cool day. I’ve run Hoosiers at Putnam on a very hot day and they were greasy as crap. Still remains to see how they handle multiple heat cycles but I don’t have any complaints yet. I’m definitely against running a street tire.

#12

Two things were different about my car this year vs. last. Toyo 888 vs RA1 and spec exhaust. My lap times were slower by 3.5 seconds this year vs. last.

#13

I put a new set of shaved 888s on after one practice session on some very well used RA1s. I expected a marked improvement but thought the 888s were a little more squirlly at first. Once I lowered the pressure a bit they were OK in both the sprint and IFU races.

#14

IndyJim wrote:

[quote]Since the exhaust stuff has died down, I feel like we haven’t had enough to complain about.

Lots of discussion about these at RRR past weekend.

Seems to me that:
they’re more expensive
don’t last as long
don’t seem to handle heat as well
aren’t as consistent when the do fall off

I’ve gone through a few now. I had one set that seemed to hold up well but that was in the cooler months. As the track and outside temps have climbed seems like they get greasy quick.

Any opinions from the peanut gallery?[/quote]

More expensive - what hasn’t gotten more expensive in recent years?

Don’t last as long - How are you gaging wear? tread depth? or a durometer and amount of heat cycles?

A common misconception is that the r888 needs to be shaved… WRONG!! The tread is solid enough that it doesn’t “squirm” like a full tread ra1. Stop shaving the r888s!!! They come molded shaved at 6/32s!!!

Don’t handle as well - once you start going the right direction with tire pressures you will see a big difference. hint hint… go the other direction you were going with tire pressures!!! Out here on the west coast the cars are going a second faster with the spec exhaust and r888s.

ANY tire is going to “hold up better” in the cold months and grease up quicker in a session on a hot day…

IMO the r888 is a much better tire. It’s funny because this is the first group I have heard complaining about the r888.

Will Faules

#15

More expensive - what hasn’t gotten more expensive in recent years?

Great Point!

Don’t last as long - How are you gaging wear? tread depth? or a durometer and amount of heat cycles?

Heat cycles

A common misconception is that the r888 needs to be shaved… WRONG!! The tread is solid enough that it doesn’t “squirm” like a full tread ra1. Stop shaving the r888s!!! They come molded shaved at 6/32s!!!

I’ll admit I haven’t personally ran them unshaved but I’ll rely on what the World Challenge guys do since I doubt I have more test data then they do, or am more competitive. They shave. Also feedback from racers here that have run them unshaved is that they do squirm quite a bit.

Don’t handle as well - once you start going the right direction with tire pressures you will see a big difference. hint hint… go the other direction you were going with tire pressures!!! Out here on the west coast the cars are going a second faster with the spec exhaust and r888s.

Again WC cars are shooting for these to be 35 hot, which is where I was at as well. I think, however as a group, which had many of the most competitive SE30 drivers in the country at RRR, everyone had the pressures well into what Toyo suggests as the ‘operating range’. No one seemed to be impressed or said there was a magic number. I ran them closer to 38 and 40 at our Road Atlanta race and found they got greasy even quicker.

ANY tire is going to “hold up better” in the cold months and grease up quicker in a session on a hot day…

Wow thanks, I hadn’t figured that out yet. But run them at higher pressures. Got it.

#16

Gasman wrote:

Steve, i’ve seen Roebling change by 2 seconds or so in a matter of 2 days. Comparing lap times from one year to the next is pretty useless at any track, (especially roebling in my experience). Only real way to compare tires is back to back testing.

sorry to hear you got slower, very frustrating for sure!

#17

willf wrote:[quote]A common misconception is that the r888 needs to be shaved… WRONG!! The tread is solid enough that it doesn’t “squirm” like a full tread ra1. Stop shaving the r888s!!! They come molded shaved at 6/32s!!!
[/quote]
interesting, i’ve driven a spec e30 on full tread 888’s (in the dry) and found them to be horrible…i handed the car over to another driver and he had the same feelings…the tread was definitely moving around

switched over to shaved tires, car felt right again…the other driver went from 10th to 1st in a spec e30 sprint race at vir on the shaved tires…

in my experience so far with the 888’s, i like them (when shaved for dry track use)…i guess everyone will get a good idea of how they hold up in hot weather in a few weeks at barber…

#18

Scott Lear from GRM mentioned to me that he had contacted Toyo to see if they would be interested in a side by side tire test. I wasn’t surprised they said “no”.

#19

I’m turning faster times from RA-1’s, I don’t think it has much to do with the tires.

It seems when they fall off, it is much more dramatic and not as progressive as the RA1’s.

We’ll learn more about these as more people use them, and experience a wider range of conditions, but one guy can be wrong but when I hear 10-15+ saying the samething it becomes more reliable.

I did like the full depth in the rain.

#20

Having not tried R-888s, I just have a side comment about a similar tire from Toyo.

I run Nitto NT-01s. They are made by Toyo but marketed under a different branch. NT-01s, R-888s, and RA-01s all supposedly use the same compound. I run NT-01s because they are cheaper than R-888s and RA-01s are getting harder to find.

NT-01s have fairly stiff sidewalls. Much stiffer than RA-01s. I would assume R-888s are the same way. However, by the time the tires are heat cycled, worn, and ready to be flipped, I find the NT-01 sidewalls to be very soft - as soft as a used RA-01 tire side walls.

I think this drop in sidewall stiffness might be one contributing factor as to why tires feel drastically different as they are heat cycled.

P.S - A full depth NT-01s are 5mm (6.3 32nds).