Poor Decisions - Where is the outrage?

#81

[quote=“ctbimmer” post=74616]If there are penalties being given out in MA, that’s good to hear, but then you were there and you don’t know. What’s the point if they are not public? They should be talked about in drivers meetings and posted on this forum.

I started this as a SE thread for a reason. If MA has something working we can learn from, bring it on please.[/quote]
I agree but I don’t feel that publicly naming names of penalties is my call to make. In the SE we have the semi-public “Poopy Board”, but I don’t know how Mid-Atl discusses driver penalties. In terms of the SE, how much that sort of thing is put on the skyline is probably the call of Robert and Fred. I spend most of my time trying to come up with good one-liners.

#82

unfortunately it sounds like things will get worse before they get better…:unsure:

#83

The poopie board is a good thing but it hasnt changed behavior. Perhaps DQs and suspensions will. I’ll ask again, are these being employed in MA?

Ranger nailed it when he wrote “consequences”?

#84

[quote=“ctbimmer” post=74633]The poopie board is a good thing but it hasnt changed behavior. Perhaps DQs and suspensions will. I’ll ask again, are these being employed in MA?

Ranger nailed it when he wrote “consequences”?[/quote]

like i said earlier. if there is a pass, contact, and a car goes off track, this is almost always classified as a punt and the passer did not pass safely resulting in a DQ. only time i have seen different is if it’s the last lap, a minor incident, then the penalty may be swap back positions.

i’d like the think MA (at least small bore group) runs pretty safe, and i think a lot of that has to do with the way the students are brought up in DE.

#85

We have found that when we step up the consequences that our drivers behave better, it has little to do with the DE program.

[size=5]We will be stepping up the consequences.[/size]

let me repeat that

[size=6]We will be stepping up the consequences.[/size]

FWIW - Whittinger was given a 3 race probation for his drive off/on and tag someone to start the in that race and we plan to follow up with that probation.

#86

[quote=“wildhorsesracing” post=74642]We have found that when we step up the consequences that our drivers behave better, it has little to do with the DE program.

[size=5]We will be stepping up the consequences.[/size]

let me repeat that

[size=6]We will be stepping up the consequences.[/size]

FWIW - Whittinger was given a 3 race probation for his drive off/on and tag someone to start the in that race and we plan to follow up with that probation.[/quote]

Driver education doesn’t produce better drivers. noted.

#87

DE does produce better drivers and our DE program is top notch. Once a driver has reached the level of amateur racer they should be qualified to drive. And in this case they all clearly showed they could drive - but made bad decisions based on the desire to win - aka. “Red Mist Syndrome” and not the desire to preserve their cars.

#88

[attachment=2000]stoning.jpg[/attachment]

#89

DE does produce better drivers and our DE program is top notch. Once a driver has reached the level of amateur racer they should be qualified to drive. And in this case they all clearly showed they could drive - but made bad decisions based on the desire to win - aka. “Red Mist Syndrome” and not the desire to preserve their cars.[/quote]

Ranger emailed me to let me know we are not allowed to disagree with you. so, on that note, at least action is being taken to do something to make the racing safer, compared to what i’ve seen in scca where they seem to turn away from any problems. Best of luck.

#90

You are more than welcome to disgree with me, I usually will quickly give up arguing on an internet forum as many people have more courage behind a keyboard. What I have derived from this discussion is:

  1. everybody can drive well but sometimes they make foolish decisions
  2. We don’t want more rules
  3. we want more lethal consequences for those that make foolish decisions
  4. the problem is nationwide with SpecE30

What this has to do with your constant innuendo about the quality of the SE’s DE program is beyond my understanding. But opinions are like rectal orifices, everyone has one, and since you have never been to a SE event then we should probably discount your opinion of our DE program :wink:

#91

I’m with Jim on this. Despite enjoying making fun of him, I’ve found him to be pretty level headed on a variety of subjects, shockingly so, and I would trust his judgment and statement that the price of poker is going up for monkeys that drive poorly. I didn’t come through the SE DE system, so I have no ability to comment on it, but I would also agree that if you haven’t ever been to a SE event, you don’t get a comment on the subject, period. Any opinion based on what you see other people posting about on the internet is an opinion that is flawed from the start.

Anyhow, all this internet chat is interesting, but at this point it doesn’t seem to be advancing the issue any. Let it play out at the next event. Jim says consequences are coming. Should be end of the story.

#92

[quote=“lightningd” post=74654]Ranger emailed me to let me know we are not allowed to disagree with you.[/quote] :laugh:

#93

i guess everyone who hasn’t been to a joint session of congress should have their opinion of the government discounted then shrug

as far as nationwide, MA has been good. all the bad incidents in MA have involved out of region drivers shrug

as i said, best of luck. you know your racers best and if they are still red-misting while racing, then stiffer penalties may help that.

#94

Ranger-
I’m going to email you about blocking lightning all together :slight_smile:

#95

[quote=“DWalsh” post=74660]Ranger-
I’m going to email you about blocking lightning all together :)[/quote]

you don’t have to. i’m done with this site. this topic wanted a discussion, however not all users opinions are allowed, so what’s the point.

once again, best of luck. peace.

#96

Frankly I think all of you are over reacting…lightning never criticized the SE
DE program, all he did was take Jim’s original statement about “consequence improving driving in races, not DE” and jokingly jab at jim for stating in a sense that DE’s didn’t matter for racecraft.

Clearly everyone here knew or should have known that Jim didn’t intend it to come out that way and lightening attempted to make a joke of it (at least that’s how I interpreted it

nice of some of you from the SE to jump down his throat and send him private emails offline…

lighten up, this shit is supposed to be fun…let me repeat that, it is supposed to be fun

if people are making bad decisions and tearing up cars and getting hurt its not fun,

if people can’t take a little joke or jab on the internet, its not fun…

I have known lightening for years and raced with him for years…he is a fast racer, a very very clean and safe racer, and only wants our sport to be fun, safe and economical…lets all have a beer, relax and enjoy the next race weekend we see each other at the track.

[quote=“DWalsh” post=74660]Ranger-
I’m going to email you about blocking lightning all together :)[/quote]

#97

I agree w/ Harper about lightning. His intentions are good, but I think he was simply misunderstood. It might be best the let this topic sit on the shelve for a little bit.

#98

While I agree with Rob 100%,

I have just been informed that Ranger has taken it upon himself to bar lightning from this forum for two weeks…

frankly that is an action that does less to further the camaraderie between “brothers in speed” then anything said in this thread…

I respectfully request that you reconsider that option, (not that expect that lightning will ever re-visit this forum, if that was your goal, you certainly accomplished it.) However, I think it is a bad precedent to set on this forum and would hate to discourage people from feeling free to express their opinions, right or wrong.

#99

Jim stated that consequences, not the DE program, is the best way to impact racer behavior. The response, erroneously asserting that Jim was claiming no link between DE programs and racer skills, was uncalled for. It is not honest to put words in someone’s mouth then slap them for saying it.

SpecE30.com has long been a place for friends to meet, help each other, tell adventure stories, and share opinions. It is not reasonable to go into another region’s subforum and treat their regional director poorly. Too our good fortune, Jim Pantas routinely spends time with us at SpecE30.com and in so doing gets to see the world from our POV. He is the only regional director to come here on a regular basis. As soon as the exchange occurred I started receiving complaints. My attempt to fix the situation didn’t work.

Disagreements are fine, but we need to behave respectfully towards each other. Otherwise the forum will become an e46.net like zone of dick measuring and poking each other in the chest. No one over the age of 21 wants to spend time measuring dicks. We are over that.

If I had been smarter I’d a locked this thread yesterday before it went sour.