Poopie Board for 2011

#81

Gasman wrote:

Stephen, that was out of line man. Most of the folks here don’t know you because they’re pretty new. They don’t understand that in person you’re a nice guy. That was a shitty thing to say. You know Chuck better than that.

#82
#83

I’ll make a final comment on this thread. The rules already exist in the CCR to deal with this problem, and it seems clear there is majority agreement in the SE that you all would like to see the matter handled in accordance with those rules. Humor and shame are not a substitute.

The NASA-SE leadership, Robert, and myself are committed to effectively following the protocol, tracking and tallying the incidents, and dealing with the problems as they come up.

#84

ctbimmer wrote:

[quote]I’ll make a final comment on this thread. The rules already exist in the CCR to deal with this problem, and it seems clear there is majority agreement in the SE that you all would like to see the matter handled in accordance with those rules. Humor and shame are not a substitute.

The NASA-SE leadership, Robert, and myself are committed to effectively following the protocol, tracking and tallying the incidents, and dealing with the problems as they come up.[/quote]
If a majority has stated they are fine with the current “secret” approach to penalizing contact, and they’ve no wish to experiment with some public ostricization, I must have missed it. I think that the majority of the folks think we can improve on the status quo.

#85

ctbimmer wrote:

[quote]I’ll make a final comment on this thread. The rules already exist in the CCR to deal with this problem, and it seems clear there is majority agreement in the SE that you all would like to see the matter handled in accordance with those rules. Humor and shame are not a substitute.

The NASA-SE leadership, Robert, and myself are committed to effectively following the protocol, tracking and tallying the incidents, and dealing with the problems as they come up.[/quote]
I have to agree with Chuck. I think there is a viable system in place, but a critical part of that process is for drivers to file contact reports. I have a feeling (backed up by experience) that hasn’t been the routine case to this point. Whether you are the hittee or the hitter you are obligated to file a contact report. If you don’t do that, it never happened as far as the system is concerned.

#86

Jim is certainly correct, HOWEVER, there are no rules if there is no enforcement. All turn workers call in contact in a corner…those incidents are recorded (or should be) by control and should be reviewed by NASA. Until that happens, excessive contact will continue. NASA needs to be proactive…not rely on the drivers to police themselves. There probably needs to be a contact NAZI to enforce the rules and hand out penalties. CB

#87

Gasman wrote:

[quote]Why Chuck, because it involves a friend of yours? That accident cost me a bundle.[/quote]Steve, it is profoundly disappointing to me that you would publicly question my integrity.

Since 2004, I have dedicated hundreds of hours per year to help organize safe, fun events so that others can enjoy a variety of race track experiences.

I was the chairman of the Peachtree BMW chapter track events group for 4 years. After that, I took over the Peachtree Club Race program. I led a highly-regarded 2009 40th anniversary Ofest track event (DE/Club Race/Race school), and have been the SE SpecE30 co-director for about 4 years.

I take these roles seriously, and I try to be fair, honest, without a personal ‘agenda’. I am pretty sure that most people who have interacted with me would agree with that self-assessment.

You don’t race with us anymore, so your primary contribution seems to be adopting a confrontational stance with nearly every forum post you make. So let me ask: what have you given back to this sport?

I really believe that you owe me an apology, Steve.

#88

Chuck, I’ve just typed and deleted a huge post. Apology? Don’t hold your breath. I will wish you a happy new year.

#89

Gasman wrote:

I could be wrong, but everything you’ve said in this thread sounds more like bitching than anything else. Do you have a grudge you can’t let go of? You are the ONLY person with a major problem with contact happening AT ALL. If that is the case, autox is a wonderful venue for you to “race” in. Assuming you don’t have a problem with road cones…

#90

Ranger wrote:

[quote]
If a majority has stated they are fine with the current “secret” approach to penalizing contact, and they’ve no wish to experiment with some public ostricization,I must have missed it. I think that the majority of the folks think we can improve on the status quo.[/quote]

For the record - I think the idea of public “ostricization”, as you call it, is a bad idea.

First of all, ostracization means to exclude, by general consent, from society, friendship, conversation, privileges, etc… or to banish. What you’ve been taking about with the dunce hat and whatnot falls more into public humiliation. And to me, there’s a pretty big difference between the two. Neither of which I think do much to foster a better experience at the track.

I go to the track to have fun and get away from all the BS. I have no interest is being part of making someone (other than Gasman :S ) feel unwelcome. I also feel that there are more positive ways to deal with drivers who are either too aggressive or having problems managing traffic… or whatever.

Plus I doubt you’re going to get any other run groups to go along with this kind of a thing.

As for the current “secret” approach… why don’t we ask to just make things more public rather than overhauling or reinventing everything?

#91

scottmc wrote:

[quote]Ranger wrote:

[quote]
If a majority has stated they are fine with the current “secret” approach to penalizing contact, and they’ve no wish to experiment with some public ostricization,I must have missed it. I think that the majority of the folks think we can improve on the status quo.[/quote]

For the record - I think the idea of public “ostricization”, as you call it, is a bad idea.

First of all, ostracization means to exclude, by general consent, from society, friendship, conversation, privileges, etc… or to banish. What you’ve been taking about with the dunce hat and whatnot falls more into public humiliation. And to me, there’s a pretty big difference between the two. Neither of which I think do much to foster a better experience at the track.

I go to the track to have fun and get away from all the BS. I have no interest is being part of making someone (other than Gasman :S ) feel unwelcome. I also feel that there are more positive ways to deal with drivers who are either too aggressive or having problems managing traffic… or whatever.

Plus I doubt you’re going to get any other run groups to go along with this kind of a thing.

As for the current “secret” approach… why don’t we ask to just make things more public rather than overhauling or reinventing everything?[/quote]

We’re not communicating. All awarding something, be it a dunce cap of whatever, does is publically identify the points leader. At that point you, each and everyone of you, choose how to react. There is no script that says “Now we all ostricize.”

At the start of this we were talking about ways we might improve things. I have a plan that is ready to go and I’ll make it happen. SteveD has an alternate, entirely reasonable plan, and with some help that could work. But now we’re just criticizing each other, the ideas to improve upon things, and each others wives, kids and dogs.

If we want something to change, we have to do something different. At the rate this is going, we’re not going to change anything and we’ll still be bickering 6 months from now.

#92

Gasman wrote:

An apology is what you should be working on, Steve

Chuck does not deserve to be treated in that way. He (unlike yourself) invests a lot of himself to this series and this sport. He may not be the most active on this board, but few directors are. He takes on a mostly thankless job so the rest of us can just show up and drive.

It’s difficult to find the words to full express my disgust with your overall behavior online. You are unreasonable and childish… and because everything that I want to say to you right now is so venomous, I’m going to cut it off right here. So please, do us all a favor and shut the phuck up!

#93

Ranger, No… We clearly aren’t communicating. Or listening…

I just believe the rules we have in place are sufficient to address the issues that are being discussed. The application or adherence to the rules could be better. And I think we’d have more luck getting something to change by asking Jim, Tom, Chuck and Paton to start there.

Plus… unless whatever solutions you are suggesting are adapted to rules in the CCR or Spec E30 Regulations, I fear all your effort will be wasted.

#94

For the record, I think some form of public humiliation for rough or bad driving is a good thing. I just don’t want aggressive driving beling labeled as “bad” necessarily. If you want to run in the front, you are going to have to be somewhat aggressive. If I, for one, do something boneheaded (bound to happen), you are welcome to humiliate me in any way you see fit.

All of that said, “can’t we all just get along” on this forum? There is no reason for any cheap shots back and forth. We all exist here to have fun and race cars together, and I’m more than ready to get that started again in 2011.

-Scott

#95

cwbaader wrote:

Ding Ding Ding!

Until some people start having to sit at home on race weekend nothing is going to change. I was the subject of some of this discussion in the early pages and I can tell you the reason I didn’t do a single race last year is because I had some other projects that took up some of the race fund. And I just couldn’t afford to put my car back together from two major incidents in '09 that weren’t my fault. Devinney can argue the fact that the contact that Johan and I had at Road atl in '09 could have been my fault but I think if you ask the guy in the 944 that Johan knocked into me he’ll say otherwise. It doesn’t matter anyway as Johan and I have cleared the air on that one.

I raced for a couple of years in BMWCCA before Spec e30 and they have a pretty strict 13/13 rule. In those years I had one bit of light contact because I truly feared being put on probation and not being allowed back. That fear does not exist at a NASA event. Yes I am an agressive racer and go out to win everytime I am out there, but I don’t think anyone that has ever raced with me has any concern about going 2 or 3 wide with me through a corner. And I think we should all want that reputation. There are a few guys that I would think twice about doing that with.

I really haven’t followed the board much this year but everytime I do read the race reports there seems to have been quite a bit of contact. Honestly more than I am comfortable with. I am planning on returning this season but I definetly have some concerns. Something does have to change and I don’t think public humiliation is the answer. 6-12 months of sitting on your ass looking at your pretty race car in the garage instead of on the track just might work though.

#96

Gasman wrote:

You couldn’t have illustrated your true colors any better. You must be a profoundly unhappy person to live with that attitude.

#97

Damion, welcome back!

The 2011 season should be a good year for all of us.

RP

#98

Patton wrote:

[quote]Damion, welcome back!

The 2011 season should be a good year for all of us.

RP[/quote]

End thread. Lets get excited for February. Gasman - I’m sorry if my posts were more offensive than need be.

#99

Hmm…And you want us new guys to strap in and join up…:slight_smile:

Interesting read.:woohoo:

#100

Jon,it looks like we are full circle and back to racing rule 101: Know who you are racing. Some of the personality is displayed in print form.Hope you learned something…

Regards RP