OZ E30 Racer requesting feedback on race parts!

#1

Please help those of us down under go FASTER!

Hi everyone.

I’ve been on and off the boards this last year or so, mainly hanging around to find ways to make my car:
A. FASTER
B. Cheaper to run
C. EVEN FASTER

For those that don’t know, I race in a state racing series in Victoria, Australia for BMW E30s with fairly similar rules to Spec E30, the major differences being the ‘breathed on’ motors, more open suspension regulations, and lighter racing weights. There are quite a few parallels between our classes, but the most obvious is that we don’t race all over the country, and there are only about 30 of us at most!

I’ve got a 1988 E30 325i imported from Hong Kong, so it’s essentially Euro Spec with MPH Dash Cluster. It’s had the full race treatment, but recently I’ve been adding lots of little tweaks to get it faster whilst I’ve been in another state (Queensland), racing in the parent category of Improved Production Cars.

ANYWAYS, what I’m really hoping to get out of this thread is some to & fro between countries about the different things you guys have tried on your cars to gain an advantage; only what’s in the rules mind you.

I’ve got 3 main items I thought I’d ask about

BRAKES

  • Do many guys use Solid Brake Guide Bolts & Bushes, like the ones from BimmerWorld? What’s the experience been like? I ask because some of our guys have started using them, and we’re permitting them in the Technical Specifications from 2009 onwards. I also need to convince my father that they’re worth using.

  • Those that have been using Performance Friction 01 compound pads - what’s the experience been like? Comparisons to other pads, pad & rotor life changes, overheating or underheating problems, price differential, whatever!

  • And how many people have removed or replaced the rear brake line pressure valve? What’s the experience been like? What did you replace it with e.g. Tilton Brake Proportioning Valve? Did it result in better/worse/different braking?

STEERING COLUMN

  • Have many people changed the angle of, or replaced the mounts on the steering column? I ask because I recently added spacers to my steering column rear mounting bracket to get the steering wheel in the right spot for my lowered seat and 6’2" driver (me), and I’m having a little trouble convincing people in our series that it’s not the end of the world and won’t cause too much of a problem in the event of an accident. I’ve attached a picture of what I’ve done:
    [file name=Lowered_Steering_Column.jpg size=42111]http://spece30.com/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/files/Lowered_Steering_Column.jpg[/file]

  • I’ve also heard that in the US, with your different roll cage/bar requirements, you can weld/attach the steering column to a bar behind the dashboard. I’m wondering, if you’ve done this, whether it has caused concern for, or resulted in any injuries. I didn’t see anything about it in the Spec E30 rules, so thought I’d ask.

TYRES

  • You guys are on the Toyo R888, we’re on the Advan AO48, both in the same size. It’s possible that next year we might have a different control tyre by virtue of Improved Production Cars putting their’s out to tender for the next 3 years. Any feedback on the tyre, compared to others; people may have tried different tyres @ HPDE events, Club Days, BMWCCA racing etc., or any changes made to suspension e.g. did it require different negative camber, more/less stiffness in the sway bars etc.

Wow, I just looked, that’s a big first post for a thread. I’m hoping that people will divulge enough info for me to go back to Victoria next year and start dicing at the front of the field.

Check out our series @ www.e30racing.com.au

Cheers, Dave (DJS325)

#2

djs325 wrote:

[quote]BRAKES

  • Do many guys use Solid Brake Guide Bolts & Bushes, like the ones from BimmerWorld? What’s the experience been like? I ask because some of our guys have started using them, and we’re permitting them in the Technical Specifications from 2009 onwards. I also need to convince my father that they’re worth using.
    [/quote]I use the solid guide bolt bushings on the rear calipers. The girling front calipers don’t need em. The bushings have made the pad wear less asymmetric, but that’s about all. I had the brass bushings spare from previously using them on my e36 m3, so they were “free”.

I can’t speak to the other stuff.

I’m actually in Australia on a work/vacation trip right now. Next year I’ll have to arrange to work from the Sydney office when you’re racing at Phillip Island :wink:

#3

Dave my thoughts on what I have experience with.

Solid guide pins. Probably not much of a performance gain, but will result in more even pad wear ultimately leading to slightly longer pad life. Maybe more consistent feel as the pad wears down as well.

PFC01 - I’m a big fan. I had problems with HT10’s crumbling. The PFC to me is easier to modulate, not as much ‘on/off’ as the Hawks. Everyone on this board will have their own opinions on this. The PFC’s are a little spendier here and maybe don’t last quite as long. I know that they are working on an 06 compound that will last longer and deliver the same results as the 01. Waiting on BimmerWorld to get the e30 shape in stock.

Technically I don’t believe we’re allowed to modify the steering angle. I think some have done it but may be reluctant to discuss. You might find a better discussion the pros / cons of this over on Bimmerforums the Track / AutoX section. I know BimmerWorld has done modified cars with the lower steering angle and attached to the dash bar for support you can probably find pics of how they did.

Tires - I’m not a big fan of the R888, but there are threads on this too. I don’t think they’re much (if any) faster than the RA1 and they don’t seem to hold up to heat as well or last as long.

Have fun racing down under. Don’t hit any kangaroos.

#4

I have solid caliper guide pins in front because I have ATE’s not Girlings. They significantly reduced the pads twisting. I think that this would improve braking because assymetrical pad wear is a result of assymetrical forces on the pad. So one part of the pad is being pushed too hard and another part not hard enough. I figure that the pad is likely most efficient, relative to brake torque and pad wear, when it’s surface is subject to a homogenous pattern of forces. At least that’s my theory.

I’ll be installing the guide pins in the rear this weekend.

From conversations with engineers at PFC, Hawk and BHP, I think that PFC01’s are the same older technology as the Hawk HT line. The Hawk and BHP guys felt strongly the the new generation (compression molded?) pads like Hawk DTC’s and all BHP pads were superior in every way. Well, except for price. I’ve used the BHP pads and they were terrific. And expensive.

I use PFC01’s in the rear and HT10’s in front. That biases braking towards the rear, an idea that has pluses and minuses. HT10’s are a problem because they can crumble, but there are limited ways to move brake bias to the rear within our rules.

I’d be using BHP or Hawk DTC series’ of pads now if I could use them in such a way that I’d keep my rear brake bias.

We aren’t allowed to play with our brake bias valve. I’ve experimented with brake bias by using high bite pads in the rear, but the Traqmate data didn’t show any advantages. Which explains why I’m still doing it. Wait. What?

Dropping the steering column. Might not be legal for us? Hmm. Speaking entirely theoretically then, I would imagine that if your seat was low that it would be a good idea to put in those spacers and drop the steering column. Or if your cage’s knee bar went under the steering column you could fasten the two together. Yes, I think that would work well. Speaking theoretically of course.

#5

IndyJim; Funnily enough, racing @ Morgan Park Raceway in Warwick QLD (www.morganparkraceway.com.au) invariably requires a ‘dodge the skippy’ board to be displayed at the Start/Finish line flagpoint to alert drivers to the chance of kangaroos on track. This usually happens at around 1530-1700 when the dusk starts to set in and the 'roos start to migrate from their feeding habitat to their sleeping habitat, a trip that they decide to take via the shortest straightline distance, which just happens to be straight across the track from Turn 8 to Turn 5! And when it’s really wet, they sometimes sit around in the centre of the track watching people slip off, whilst having a munch on the grass.

P.S> You’ve obviously seen some footage of kangaroo incidents from Bathurst, please realise that most Australian tracks are surrounded by scrub or bushland (aka ‘forest’), so it’s not like they’re running amok in urban areas. They may be big and strong, but they can certainly be VERY stupid sometimes.

#6

LAZ; If you’re still in Australia by the 2nd weekend in October (11-12), tune in to Channel 7 for the Bathurst 1000 telecast on Saturday & Sunday. V8 SuperCars tackling the Australian ‘Green Hell’. Like Nurburgring Nordschleife, but real public road for 350 days a year, and only 1/3 the distance.

Or if you’re in Victoria around that time, either October 11-12 or 18-19, there will be racing events @ Phillip Island on both those weekends, the first being a BMW Car Club Victoria Sprint Day, the second being a round of the Victorian State Championship Series.

Check out our calendar @ www.e30racing.com.au, and if you’re in Queensland around that time, and up for a road trip, feel free to come and see me in Warwick. I’ll also be in Sydney @ Oran Park for the Improved Production Nationals on 7-9 November 2008, if you’re still hanging around, or just trying to avoid the Presidential Elections…

#7

Dave, We’ve gotta have one of these “Dodge the Skippy” signs. Damn how that would be funny. Can you send us a picture of one?

Or does it look like this?

#8

Maybe replace the 14km with: NEXT 5 laps?

To be honest it’s actually a white plastic board with a red logo of a Kangaroo on it; interesting that they are allowed to use it since it’s not a CAMS (our NASA or SCCA body) or FIA approved signal - but the ‘Last Lap’ board isn’t approved, we used to get it but no we don’t - who knows these days?

#9

WRONG!!! :wink: ALL Performance Friction pads share the same overall manufacturing process. Not just race pads, but ALL pads they make so they have the same high level of technology. They are compression molded with heat added during the process to equalize the forces in the pad. THEN they also undergo a curing process which is essentially a heat treat for brake pads. THEN race compounds are flame burnished on the surface to similate the first break in heat cycle. This means they are ready to race and require no bedding out of the box. THEN they receive a proprietary powder coat which helps ‘lubricate’ the interface between the piston and the backing plate.

#10

robweenerpi wrote:

WRONG!!! :wink: ALL Performance Friction pads share the same overall manufacturing process. Not just race pads, but ALL pads they make so they have the same high level of technology. They are compression molded with heat added during the process to equalize the forces in the pad. THEN they also undergo a curing process which is essentially a heat treat for brake pads. THEN race compounds are flame burnished on the surface to similate the first break in heat cycle. This means they are ready to race and require no bedding out of the box. THEN they receive a proprietary powder coat which helps ‘lubricate’ the interface between the piston and the backing plate.[/quote]

I stand corrected.

#11

We just toured the PFC factory a month ago. B)

They are very proud of their manufacturing facility and industry leading level of QC and statistical process control. They are not interested in making various levels of quality. The entire company culture revolves around making the best possible pad they can for the specific need, so there is only one quality level. At every step in the process they are using processes to standarize tolerances and minimize variables.

Few highlights…
At a minimum they mix 1500# of pad material. This allows every production run of pads to be consistent. They have the compounds calculated to the molecular level so material content is critically important.
This mix is accurate to insanely tight tolerances, liken in to throwing a few grains of salt into a swimming pool.
They have an in house chem lab where all materials are tested before they go to the mix room, which is even climate controlled…
It’s mixed as a slurry to prevent stratification of the ingredients.
All Pads share the same pre mold prep and adhesive to the backing plate.
All pads have the same mixture adhesive so the material bonding is ‘interlaced’ after curing. This is why they don’t crack up nearly as bad as some others and will not delamintate.
All pads go through the same mold presses mentioned above, street pads have thier chamfers molded in, not cut, so they maintain thier properties with wear.
Street Pads have multiple layers of compound which acts like a noise buffer. This means they can use higher performance compounds without the huge drawback of squealy pads.

#12

This is the kind of info and feedback I’m after - another reason I am VERY seriously considering PFC 01 Pads for the future as a replacement of the EBC Yellowstuff & Bluestuff I’ve been using at the moment.

#13

I have an airbag steering column, and my dash bar goes over the column…which is dropped about 3/4th an inch, otherwise I could not see the track. I am 6’3". the airbag column has an extra u joint so it not in a bind.

Al

#14

Ranger wrote:

[quote]Dave, We’ve gotta have one of these “Dodge the Skippy” signs. Damn how that would be funny. Can you send us a picture of one?

Or does it look like this?

[/quote]

EMRA has a ‘cow’ flag for when they run at Summit Point, and ‘Bullwinkle’ Horns from the flaggers who know their stuff is not uncommon. I have witnessed several deer strikes there, saw a turkey go thru the windshield of a miata and heard there has been a bear on that track. Groundhogs are common and turtles occasionally…

Welcome to Wild and Wonderful West Virginia

#15

Hey Dave, I heard last night that in the Aussie military they will pay for a boob job for female personnel. Some Aussie military rep confirmed this. Can you help me understand this? Is this for female morale or male morale? Maybe it’s some sort of subtle psyops move encouraging the enemy to give up? You guys are damn clever I say.

Man, you just can’t make this kind of thing up.

#16

To confuse and disorientate the general populace in order to create anarchy - and take over the world!

Is it true that all Americans weigh half a ton, drive cars that use fuel faster than the Middle East can pump oil out of the ground, and their government, regardless of party, have no long term strategy to deal with climate change, fiscal accountability or any other major issue facing the populace?

Or am I just basing my impressions on the limited amount of information that comes across the Pacific…

P.S> Not US bashing, just highlighting that impressions of other nations delivered by the media may not be ENTIRELY accurate.

P.P.S> There was a problem with a Defence Force recruitment poster that was deemed to be too racy last year (see below), but I haven’t heard anything about free boob jobs - maybe they’ll take mine away to improve my morale?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22145692-2,00.html

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/navy_buys_bazookas

*the above is about the boob jobs - old news it seems…

#17

Dave your impressions are pretty much right on.

Since we’re learning about other cultures today - here is what I know about Australia.

Paul Hogan
Vegemite
Is Men at Work still popular? They rocked in the 80’s
You guys have crazy animals and most have some type of venom
Your version of football looks painful
the toliet water spins backwards
your seasons are backwards too
Holden is Australian for Pontiac
V8 supercars look pretty cool

And Mad Max

#18

Ranger,

The Boob jobs happen in the US Military as well, I figured you would know that. I ran into a doctor who was in the military paying off his GI Bill or something like that. He stated that Boob Jobs were what he did the most. Mostly the wifes of the men but sometimes the women soldiers as well. Maybe you can look into this.

Michael
#36
Great Lakes Region

#19

In answer to your knowledge about Australia.

Paul Hogan ->being sued for tax evasion, no longer part of ANY Tourism Australia Campaigns

Vegemite ->is an alternative spread for toast/sandwiches, similar to the English ‘Marmite’. Made from the leftovers of the brewing process for beer (brewers yeast). High in essential vitamins, very salty. An acquired taste - use like ENGLISH mustard, not American is the best way to describe the correct application

Is Men at Work still popular? They rocked in the 80’s ->wouldn’t know - in the eighties I was still attempting to perform vertical perambulation and avoid bed wetting (was born in '85)

You guys have crazy animals and most have some type of venom -> our Tourism slogan should be “Come to Australia, you might accidentally get killed!” Most of the fairly dangerous snakes/sharks/spiders aren’t in urban areas, sharks particularly

Your version of football looks painful -> but you have to look at it as a blend of rugby (the basis of Gridiron/American Football, which given the amount of time it spends in the player’s hands defeats the purpose of call it 'Football) and soccer, both English sports dating back several centuries. It has the longevity of a good soccer match, but the contact and physical presence of a rubgy scrum.

the toliet water spins backwards ->No, YOUR water spins backwards! Australia is actually depicted at the top of our Australian/New Zealand Standard World Maps, which is basically a flipped over world map from the traditionally biased northern hemisphere powers. And the globe? Also upside down.

your seasons are backwards too -> Again, YOUR seasons are backwards. But it makes the school calendars so much easier having the long (6week+) summer break from just before Christmas through till the end of January. And a school year also matches up perfectly with the calendar year. And the very cold part of winter is actually quite short in most parts of Australia.

Holden is Australian for Pontiac -> Holden is just another branch of General Motors; with almost every GM manufacturer’s product is available in Australia, but they don’t come as separate brands; they are all rebadged as Holden, e.g. Daewoo Matix = Holden Viva, Opel Astra = Holden Astra. But Holden develop their own large RWD car, the Commodore, the architecture (Zeta?) of which is being used by GM for other RWD applications, like the upcoming Camaro, which is basically a 2-Door Commodore with 12" cut out of the wheel base. Commodore uses the same Chevy crate motors, transmissions etc. But all the trim doesn’t fall off. And they actually sell better than Camry… Ford Australia has a similar car, the Ford Falcon, but that was traditionally an Australian designed vehicle, and uses a local straight 6 engine (also available with turbo & up to 420hp) and a mixture of Ford V8 bits to make it’s V8 (think Ford 5.4L iron block V8, with Mustang Cobra 4.6L V8 32valve heads, with a whole bunch of custom parts). These cars are lightyears beyond any of the current US GM/Ford RWD platforms, but the Detroit head offices think Americans would rather buy current domestic vehicles than an Australian vehicle - but if you drove a Falcon back to back against a Crown Vic, you’d wonder what the hell Ford US is thinking! They race against each other in V8 Supercars (see below)

V8 supercars look pretty cool That they do. Must be that “big sedan turning right” thing that’s got you all hot and bothered. V8 SuperCars grew as a replacement for Group A Touring Cars, which stopped in 1992. The cars used to be more production based, kind of along the lines of the SCCA World Challenge Cars, but are now purpose built from the ground up. Chassis construction uses some NASCAR ideas, but as of next year, with a new Falcon (FG) and the current Commodore (VE), the cars will be completely hand fabricated. They make a floor out of steel, and built a spaceframe/roll cage from which the chassis extends. Double wishbone front end, banjo Ford 9" style solid rear axle (with spool) with trailing arms, watts link. All coil overs, rod ends, and most parts are made from billet in house in Australia, and both cars share common suspension mounting points, which means the actual wheel base/track and suspension configration between the cars is identical. Massive brakes, with a control Alcon rotor & 3 pad choices, 17x11" wheels on control slicks, category controlled aero kits, control engine/chassis management, control wheel nuts, control this, control that, very focused on cost containment. The engines are almost pure NASCAR, except we went that new fangled “fuel injection” thing that the oval racers must think is just a phase. 5L (305ci) V8s, Holden uses a purpose designed Chevblock, Ford uses off the shelf block and heads. All engine parts have to be made available for scrutiny, massively controlled specification with minimum weights, sizes, 7500rpm limit etc. All bolted onto what is possibly the best front-engine rear-drive sequential gearbox available in the world, the Holinger RD6-S, with category controlled gear & diff ratios, going through a solid steel spool (Understeer anyone?). But it’s on a par with DTM for being the best Touring Car racing series in the World. 29 cars seperated by little more than a second in lap speed - on road racing tracks like Bathurst, Phillip Island and street circuits like Surfers Paradise (see INDY) and Adelaide (ex F1 GP). Gotta love it!

And Mad Max Max who? Can say honestly that I’ve never seen it!

And that about raps up the ‘ask the Aussie segment’ - can you guys start answering my questions now? I want the truth! (and don’t go Jack Nicholson on my Tom Cruise…)

#20

djs325 wrote:

[quote]To confuse and disorientate the general populace in order to create anarchy - and take over the world!

Is it true that all Americans weigh half a ton, drive cars that use fuel faster than the Middle East can pump oil out of the ground, and their government, regardless of party, have no long term strategy to deal with climate change, fiscal accountability or any other major issue facing the populace?

Or am I just basing my impressions on the limited amount of information that comes across the Pacific…

P.S> Not US bashing, just highlighting that impressions of other nations delivered by the media may not be ENTIRELY accurate.

P.P.S> There was a problem with a Defence Force recruitment poster that was deemed to be too racy last year (see below), but I haven’t heard anything about free boob jobs - maybe they’ll take mine away to improve my morale?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22145692-2,00.html

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/navy_buys_bazookas

*the above is about the boob jobs - old news it seems…[/quote]

Hmm. Don’t get me wrong here, no criticism was intended. Only amusement and male bonding were intended. Having spent my adult life in the US Military, I can guarentee you that we are doing more stupid things then you guys are. And while boob jobs might not be the most efficient use of taxpayer dollars, “not the most efficient” is chump change when compared to the insane things that we did all the time.

Having worked with you guys in hostile environments, I can say that if a person had to choose a group to watch your back, you’d want, in no particular order an Aussie, Brit or a Legionnaire. And the same can be said for guys to have a beer with. And if any of them can bring along a boob-enhanced squadee, the beer’s on us.

Re. Americans weighing half a ton. Sad but true. There’s some cultural thing at work where we just eat too damn much.

Re. Driving cars that suck lots of fuel. Ya, that’s true too. But maybe it’s really taxes driving that behavior.

Re. Everything else. Pretty much true too. Fiscally I’m not sure that we’re worse off then other folks. We’re a little behind everyone else on the road to socialism but we’re getting there as quickly as we can.

Might as well US Bash. The folks that still adhere to the idea that the US tries to do the right thing seem to be limited to small town America.

Luck Dave