NEW RULES

#34

Add me to the growing group of racers that is in strong disagreement with the new change.

Just like Michael O, I would have to change my entire system.

I think the group has stated it best - the new exhaust rule will cost us all a bunch of money, and will not do anything to keep the cars equal.

I agree with Patton that our rules czars have done a splendid job in the past. However, this is the first time that a rule change has a serious impact on the group of existing racers, which is now a substantial number of people.

The rule will NOT make the cars more equal, but will only serve to sepereate the haves from the have nots, and will cost EVERYONE money, time, and effort. I don’t understand the new exhaust rule at all. Why would you get away from glasspacks which have been great for everyone? Why would you spec a diameter without at least looking at what the majority of the drivers already have?

I’m baffled by this latest rule change, and hope that the powers that be will reconsider.

-Vic
#325

#35

Can we bargain?

I say if you are making me spend megabucks on the exhaust, I want you to make my 14x6.5 basketweaves legal.

:woohoo:

#36

My buddy has a dyno. We’ve dynoed both our cars with different exhuasts and as patton said the only increase in horsepower you will see is when you delete the cat. Everyone pretty much has the same exhaust. Both our cars have glasspack type mufflers(2) on them. If you truly want a spec exhuast get one guy with one machine to make them. That’s the only way it will be SPEC. IMO that would take the series in the wrong direction and cause alot of us to spend money that we don’t need to.

Common sense note: Cars with less miles are going to make more power. If you have a spec exhaust this will still ring true.

#37

This new rule is pretty far off base from the nature of spec E30. Based on the number of responses it is not a popular rule change. I’m pretty PISSED that I just spent $300 3 months ago on a new exhaust that was compliant. It would have been nice to know in January about this new change. Now I have to piss away another $300 that I could put towards my H&N device. I agree with the comments that 80% of the spec E30 racers really don’t care about what exhaust system another spec e30 driver installed. I think it’s a complete waste of money, and goes against the nature of the series. I hope this unpopular change can be rectified.

#38

Not here to complain, just voicing my opinion since that’s what the internet was designed for :wink:

I am not in favor of the spec muffler/exhaust package. I too have converted a once decent exhaust over to being SE30 compliance at the start of this year for about $230. Then it broke at Road Atl. Got it fixed ($150). Now the flex tube broke (probably from the original problem) so it’s once again back to getting fixed for CMP knowing that it’s going to have to go back in again later for this new rule compliance. Ugh.

Money spent on exhaust work (and not races) is money not well spent.

#39

Cherry Bombs FTW!
My other ‘fear’ with this rule as it is starting to sound is that we may be forced to buy the system pre-made from one supplier. I have yet to see any ‘custom’ aftermarket exhaust system affordably priced. There really is no substitute for the local pipe bender making one up for you and slapping a Bomb or two on the back. It’s cheap, it works, it’s durable.

Judging by the replies on this board, here is a case where the competitors do NOT want a rule change. Benevolant dictatorship or not, this may be a time to consider listening to the peasants. If we don’t feel there’s a problem, then why make one?

Still running my stock exhaust system because I don’t want to wind up in the same boat as these other guys.

#40

Add my voice to the "this isn’t a problem that needs solving" camp. I’ve got a muffler-shop system with a pair of cheap glasspacks and I’m very happy with it.

What I haven’t seen explained well is the rationale for the change, especially now that there are, what, maybe 50 cars already built and the racing has never been better.

It just doesn’t make sense.

#41

One more in the If it Ain’t broke don’t fix it camp

#42

Ditto what they said.

Jim Robinson
#08

#43

I don’t read the board much so Im late to the party. I’m yet another in the "If it Ain’t broke don’t fix it camp"

#44

I really don’t care if I have to change the muffler or not, but what’s the reason behind this rule change?
I believe I’m already good anyways.
Why did you guys get two mufflers when one is cheaper to begin with? I got my "custom" catback for $150.

#45

BETO wrote:
I believe I’m already good anyways.
Why did you guys get two mufflers when one is cheaper to begin with?

Beto,

So did your car come with just a single pipe all the way back? Did you use a dual in and out muffler? or did you Y into the single muffler? If you really go with the "if it don’t say you can you can’t" rule then you better have a dual in and out if your car was dual to begen with. No provisions for adding a Y or converting a dual to single system.

Michael O.

#46

Michael,
referring to:
9.3.4.1.4. A single or twin tube system may (3.1) be used.

since all of the cars came with dual tube headers, a Y pipe has to be allowed somewhere in the system to allow for freedom to choose a single or twin tube system. And it doesn’t say I have to start my modified system before the CAT, that is just an allowance (i.e. I believe I can change from the stock twin tube to a single tube whereever I choose, and vice versa for the cars which have a single tube as stock)

just my personal interpretation.
bruce

#47

I also have two Flo Pro Twister muffler that look like glasspacks and I’d rather not have to spend the money to change it.

My car is still street legal and still has the cat FWIW.

Don

#48

ilateapex wrote:

[quote]BETO wrote:
I believe I’m already good anyways.
Why did you guys get two mufflers when one is cheaper to begin with?

Beto,

So did your car come with just a single pipe all the way back? Did you use a dual in and out muffler? or did you Y into the single muffler? If you really go with the "if it don’t say you can you can’t" rule then you better have a dual in and out if your car was dual to begen with. No provisions for adding a Y or converting a dual to single system.

Michael O.[/quote]
The only way to have a single tube is having a Y somewhere, if I don’t have a cat, then the Y can be in the down pipe, middle or before the muffler. It doesn’t have to say in the rules you can have a Y since it already states you can have a single pipe.
I agree with Bruce, but then again I’m not the rule maker, and perhaps they could make this clearer. I like graphics, that helps.

#49

First of all, we appreciate everyone’s comments, respectful and not, about the exhaust issue.

A few comments to the group…

  1. We were waiting for a specific supplier to give us results from their testing. Those results never came, even after my telephone calls.

  2. We were too quick to post that particular rule.

  3. Don’t change your exhaust.

  4. The Regional Series Directors and I will discuss the exhaust rules, and yes, your voices are heard.

  5. If/when a change is made, my exhaust will have to change too.

  6. If/when a change is made, everyone will have a long time to make the change.

  7. Drivers have complained to us that the exhaust systems need to be more uniform.

  8. This weekend at Summit Point, I will examine several exhaust systems and need the drivers to tell me how much they spent on their exhaust. We will also be dynoing several cars and will look at how, if possible, the exhust affects the numbers.

Carter

#50

This is great news Carter. I am glad our voices are heard even if in the end I have to change my system. I will be at Summit and planned on dynoing while there and see if the different AFM helped my curve. Will be glad to give all the details of anything you need.

Michael O.

#51

Carter,
I will get a tally sheet of what the cars in Norcal are currently running at the june 30th event. I will also look over all the HPDE cars preparing for Spece30.

#52

While a more uniform (i.e. spec) exhaust would address that issue, it does open the question as to how extensive the specification should be. To be completely fair and uniform I think the rule would have to cover from the headers back and require retaining the OE (or OE equivalent) catalytic converter and front resonator since not all cars are "track only" and some may have to meet local emissions and registration requirements.

I have a suspicion that the greatest gains in the exhaust lie in reducing restriction in the front section (using a "test" pipe or gutting the cats & resonator). Any car that has to retain this part of the exhaust will thus be at a disadvantage, regardless of what’s done with rear section of the exhaust.

Obviously this is a pretty big can of worms. And it might mean that a "street and emissions legal" exhaust would have to be called out as the spec exhaust. An alternative to a single vendor spec exhaust might be to require an OE or OE equivalent (i.e. COTS 50 state street legal exhaust) from the headers back and perhaps permit gutting of the catalytic converters.

I suspect that to get meaningful results you’d really need to dyno one car using different exhaust configurations. That seems to me to be the only way to determine what contribution the exhaust makes.

#53

Idea for a spec exhaust think this would give us a good flow.

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