New motor build

#1

The full rotating assembly is getting balanced next week and its payday so time to buy some parts. I of course got oversize pistons from bimmerparts a few months ago. I was only thinking of the cost of pistons, gaskets and bearing. I forgot about all the bolts that need replacing. My brother is doing the build and we just had a long talk about it. I will probably buy most of the parts from VAC and IE. My brother said he thinks main bolts can be reused but connecting rods are definitely torque to yield. I was shocked by the price of connecting rod bolts. How can they be 10$ a piece when head bolts are only 29$ for a set. The ARP connecting rod bolts from VAC are 200$ and my brother said if I get them he will measure them and if they haven’t stretched they can be used again if that time ever comes. Should I pay up for the ARPs or should I save a little and get the TTY disposable bolts.

As for the oiling system
I was thinking I’d trade my brother my factory oil cooler setup for the 325e cooler elimination block he has. My brother suggested an accumulator. I told him that the latest ranger idea is to make the system as simple as possible after using an accusump. He was thinking that this ranger guy didn’t know that if he had a 2 qt accusump he needed an extra 2 quarts of oil in the motor to fill it. I told him that was unlikely. I like the idea of being able to eliminate startup wear by using the accusump to flow oil prior to startup. Ranger what is the final verdict on the accusump? I’m using the IE crank scraper in the current motor. I see 7 psi on left handers now but I’m hoping the new oil pump for the new motor will cure it. I had bought an aluminum plate to to do some oil pan mods. I just read all the serious oiling threads and love the hinged doors on the PP pan. I have 5 feet of stainless piano hinge I could use but it’s pretty stiff right now. My aluminum tig welding skills aren’t great but I have the pan that came with my brothers car to mess with. The PO JB welded a turbo oil return fitting into the side of it.

#2

Ranger I remember in one of your posts from a long time ago you thought your accusump was keeping your op lower for longer. I’m thinking an electronic valve which didn’t open until a high pressure was reached would solve that problem. Also I don’t remember you ever posting pics of you current rule bending system. Did you really put an electric pump in the pan? I want to see pics.

#3

The cheapest place I was able to find rod bolts might have been Bimmerparts. Call them up and ask for Chris and for the SpecE30 discount.

The Accusump and I were some kind of Greek Tragedy. I never really figured out what was causing my problems, the symptoms were just too bizarre for any theory to fit. But the best theory is that my Accusump, that I bought used, had a problem with it’s internal piston so it wouldn’t always push oil when it was supposed to. There’s some symptoms that doesn’t explain, but unless a person invoke evil magic, curses, or warped space-time, some of that adventure isn’t going to get explained.

IMO the Accusump idea is perfectly sound. There’s a couple guys that are running them. I’d use a mechanical valve tho so there’s never any question as to what it’s doing. Positive control is good.

The cheap TTY head bolt is fine as long as you don’t have to swap heads every couple of months. The next solution in order of price…
Metric Blues from a big hardware outfit like Northern Tools. These are supposed to be re-usuable.
Reusable bolts from Metric Mechanic
ARP bolts or studs.

All 3 of the above solutions require a different tightening protocol. I’d do something like a 3 stage tighten to 55ftlbs.

Note that there is also a protocol for re-using TTY bolts if you’re in a pickle. This would be applied to both rod bolts and head bolts. It’s a matter of how much the bolt has lengthened. The Mercedes spec for the head bolt is 2mm of growth. There is a similar spec for the rod bolt, but I don’t know it off the top of my head. Also, one thing I learned at Metric Mechanic is that in getting rod bearing clearances exactly right, you can go thru a lot of rod bolts. That means you want to have lots of old used bolts on hand, and also, you’ll gain a feel for when a bolt is still sound or when it’s about to go. We found that a bolt would survive ~3 re-uses before it failed.

The reference to getting rod bearings exactly right is about a process of matching rod, bearing and crank journal. Each rod is a little different from each other. Each bearing is different and each crank journal is different. It takes a lot of measuring and some trial and error to get the best match you can for all 3. That trial and error consumes rod bolts.

Spend some time getting the oil pan right. The IJ scraper and the IE scraper have no “baffle” functionality like the PP pan and the Metric Mechanic pan. TC Motorsports has a cheap oil pan baffle insert that is worth putting in. Fish Bratton came up with a way recently to install a door in the TC Motorsports baffle that looks to me like the perfect combo of cheap and function. Weld a bung low on the oil pan on the driver’s side for a future temp sensor.

#4

Don’t assume that your rods are all good. The spec for them being out of round is very tight. MM’s take was that rods that come from engines that have been run hard usually fail inspection. I’d have to check my notes but the spec was something really small like 0.0004". Be emotionally prepared to send some of them out for reconditioning.

#5

[quote=“Ranger” post=61422]The cheapest place I was able to find rod bolts might have been Bimmerparts. Call them up and ask for Chris and for the SpecE30 discount.
[/quote]

Rod bolts are $3.34 each from the BMW dealer with the CCA discount; They are $4.18 without. Generally, hardware is cheaper from the dealer. Parts like pistons, gaskets, bearings, head bolts, camshafts etc are cheaper from Chris at Bimmerparts.com. Stay away from Febi rockers and only use OEM with BMW stamped on the side. They are about $30 each discounted from the dealer, but I recently discovered a technique to refurb the pads on OEM rockers and have buckets of them to refurb. Let me know if you need a set.

If you can weld aluminum, it’s pretty easy to fab up a very effective oil pan solution. You’ll need a BMW part 11131706704 (less than $2.00 from the BMW dealer) which is a trap door for the E30 325ix oil pan. Take the OEM baffle out of the oil pan, cut a square hole, and rivet the trap door to the oil pan, then re-install baffle. On the other side of the pan, weld a one inch piece of aluminum as pictured below that will act as a “dam” and prevent oil from traveling up the black in left corners. You’ll need to clearance off the oil pressure sending unit the screws into the block bottom. Check out Metric Mechanics engine catalog for pictures of a fancier dam, but what’s pictured is good enough. You can also remove the OEM oil level sender and replace with a plate to slightly increase the oil capacity, but that’s not all that necessary. The trap door and the aluminum dam work well together to prevent starvation in left hand corners. You could also use the TC Motorsports baffle in conjunction with the trap door. In my testing, it wasn’t effective without the trap door. Instead of the IJ scraper, I use a windage tray from the E36 M50 series motor. You can’t see it in the pictures, but there are four mounting points that I had fabricated that are secured with four of the main bearing cap bolts. By the way, main bearing cap bolts are reusable.


By [URL=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/richardbratton]richardbratton[/URL] at 2011-12-02

#6

Thanks

What is the oil pump bearing problem/fix that was mentioned in one of the old oil threads?

#7

[attachment=1688]getimage.php.jpg[/attachment]

Does anyone have any experience with this one way oil screen from canton?

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=20-906

#8

[quote=“turbo329is” post=61434]Thanks

What is the oil pump bearing problem/fix that was mentioned in one of the old oil threads?[/quote]

Oil pumps don’t have bearings… Are you talking about the intermediate shaft bearings?

#9

yes

#10

How do I get the factory baffle out/in without cutting anything. I looks like you did it but I didn’t think it was possible.

#11

You have to drill out the round fastener on the front right of the baffle and re-weld when you are done modifying.

#12

My brother can get the connecting rod bolts for 6 something each at his shop. I doubt the bmw dealer would be any cheaper. Can I use the oil cooler plumbing to install an accusump since I think I’ll get rid of the oil cooler. I have plenty of -10 braided line laying around so I’m thinking of buying an accusump and installing it so I can reach the valve in the cabin. I really don’t like the idea of an oil pressure relief valve in the cabin. I envision it popping and spraying hot oil all over the inside of the car. It looks like the same kind of release valve thats on my air compressor so I don’t know how I could run it to a catch can with out replacing it.

#13

Dude, don’t be hard headed! Give your dealer a call and ask. Their pricing is actually pretty good on some things like I previously mentioned. I wouldn’t mislead you…

You could but I wouldn’t. Why spend money on an accusump and add complexity to your oiling system when pan baffles have proven effective and reliable? I have an accusump to sell you if you really want to go down that route, but I don’t know anyone that uses one. Maybe it’s different where you race, but I’m just saying…

You might want to reconsider deleting the oil cooler as well. I tried that earlier this year with my brand new motor and re-installed my oil cooler after seeing uncomfortably high oil temps.

#14

Dude, don’t be hard headed! Give your dealer a call and ask. Their pricing is actually pretty good on some things like I previously mentioned. I wouldn’t mislead you…

You could but I wouldn’t. Why spend money on an accusump and add complexity to your oiling system when pan baffles have proven effective and reliable? I have an accusump to sell you if you really want to go down that route, but I don’t know anyone that uses one. Maybe it’s different where you race, but I’m just saying…

You might want to reconsider deleting the oil cooler as well. I tried that earlier this year with my brand new motor and re-installed my oil cooler after seeing uncomfortably high oil temps.[/quote]

No oil cooler means you have to mod your skid plate so lots of air flow can hit the oil pan. If the oil pan didn’t get enough air flow, oil temps would indeed go pretty high, especially if your cooling system was less than super.

My situation works, well “worked” might be more accurate since it’s now all scrap metal, because not only does the oil pan get lots of air, but I’ve also a great big double-pass radiator that is carefully baffled so every bit of air that hits the front of the car is forced to go thru the radiator.

The engine is designed to dump heat into it’s coolant, not into it’s oil. The big sources of heat are the cylinder walls and head. Water surrounds the cylinder walls and there’s water flowing just above the combustion chambers. So pretty much w/o exception any heat has to make it past water in order to heat oil. So a top notch coolant system will do a lot to prevent too much heat from going in the oil.

#15

I have no airflow right now other than what goes above the bumper. I have a 16 inch spal puller that seems to suck to heat out in a hurry though.

#16

I see that Moroso makes a much cheaper accumulator with the manual valve included. Does anyone have any experience with it? Does anyone know if the one way screen baffle material works?

#17

You still aren’t listening to me, but that’s cool… I doubt too many people have experience with the Moroso accumulator as all racers (that I’m aware of) just put a baffle in their oil pan. You DO NOT need an accumulator or accusump to prevent oil starvation.

#18

I realize that I don’t need a accumulator to prevent oil starvation. I appreciate your advice about oil pan baffling. I would like my new motor to stay a new motor as long as possible so if spending 200 to prelube the motor prevents some startup wear then I think it might be worth it. If I only start the motor once a month how much oil is left in the bearing when I do so and how long after it starts before it reaches full oil flow? My brother hasn’t ordered connecting rod bolts yet from his supplier, so he is going to check the dealer thanks to your advice.

#19

I think I have the most Accusump experience here. For a while I had oil pressure gauges at the pump, sump and galley. That allowed me to see what was happening as pressure came and went in different parts of the system.

If you want to get an external pressurized sump like the Accusump or the Moroso, drive on and do it. Fish Bratton is making a legit point where really good baffling might be enough, but there are scant few of us that has oil pump baffling as good as he does. I know of only 4-6 of us, and your solution is cheaper than what we did.

Drive on with your sump, it’s worthwhile.

#20

Thanks

I don’t just want the sump I want really good baffling as well.