New engine hp cap rule

#1

Carter,
And I quote you “Since founding Spec E30 in 2003, I have always maintained the core belief that Spec E30 is not about the cars, it’s about the racing. By implementing this rule, we are showing the racing community, and future Spec E30 racers, that an expensive engine is not required to be competitive in your local Spec E30 race”.

Should this be the goal moving forward in 2014, then why is the rule being implemented for the 2013 National Championships?
The National Championships are not a local spec E30 race/regional event. For most attending the National Championships, they have put a great deal of time, effort & money, etc to be at their best for this event. You have implemented this new rule basically 30 days out from the National Championships when most of those going have made a majority of their plans & prepped their cars.

I am fully aware that more than half the cars registered exceed the HP limit & no secret at this point, that the new motor in my car was the reason this rule is being implemented for the 2013 Nationals.You can check the registration, I was the first to register for spec e30 the day registration opened, why? Not because I planned to go there with a BIG HP motor, instead because a National Championship was the goal. This has been the goal all season. Now after all proper preparation has been made, I am effectively unable to run because my engine HP exceeds the limit. The only options that have been handed down by the powers at be are change class, withdraw your entry for a refund or put a legal motor in your car or drive another car. I am completely confident that my motor builder has built a 100% legal motor & I have offered to Nasa the opportunity to tear it down only to be denied. My Motor is legal & was built to the current rule set. Had you announced this NEW HP RULE set 60 days ago, I’m sure I would have opted to not build a new motor knowing that a new rule set was forthcoming. Nasa elected to change the rule with no notice (as it applies to the 2013 National Championships) no direction, no suggestion & no options to “detune” motors that exceed 162.9HP. Sorry, DQ

If the goal was not to spend money, This rule just made spec e30 racing more expensive at least for those planning to attend the Nationals with motors that exceed the new HP rule.

Please understand that I support the vision of spec e30, I even support the new rule, however, offering no allowable means to Detune leaves few options within the current set of rules to work with & could open up another can of worms. Implementing the rule for the 2013 Season, any part of it for that matter is just poor timing, not to mention there are many other questions being brought forward about this new rule from persons on the forum that may need to be addressed as part of this new rule set regarding HP Limit.

As National spec e30 Director, I am requesting that you reconsider implementing the HP rule set for the 2013 National Championships.

#2

Steve, I don’t have the National Director’s job ( sounds like a difficult one for you this year), but I do share the position of SE Regional Director.

Too much HP?
My daughter’s car has about 8 of those.
Can your racers test at the dyno prior to the Race?

I suggest that they change to a heavier weight oil -1.5
Add the stock fan back to the engine -3
Go back to the factory spark plug, not the Autolite version -2.5
Remove the air box velocity stack thingee -2.5

Perhaps those tips will help in reverse engineering the tinkering (all legal) that we’ve all done in these many years.

Robert Patton

PS just ideas, I don’t have answers to your plight.

#3

since I am relatively new to spec e30 (13 years racing with NASA, but this is first full season in Spec e30)…and since my car is down on hp…

what weight oil should I run for more hp
what spark plus should I run for more hp
what “air box velocity stack thingee” should I add for more hp

thanks

not trying to be funny or obnoxious, just looking for a few (9 to be exact) hp to get to the 155 level

#4

Brad Penn, 10 W 30

AR 53

Under the air filter, there is a funnel shaped thing that smooths air flow to the AFM…make sure it is there.

#5

Motul V-300 seems to be pretty FAST oil…

#6

thanks!

#7

…as the rules require, I believe.

9.3.1.1.2. The stock unmodified intake airbox assembly shall be retained, and in its original mounting. The stock airbox front rubber hose shall be removed.

I feel for Ferrario. The timing of the rule announcement is pretty tough.

It would suck to find out you lost your detune cushion using thicker oil because the extra 100* of oil temp after a real session (as opposed to the time it takes to warm the water on a dyno) eliminated that parasitic drag.

#8

With this being the first test of the rule, I’m thinking Steve will have to have a lot of discretion at his disposal. Steve, time to call Carter and see how you’se guys want to work this out? The rest of this post is for entertainment only. Do you have his phone number?

RP
Mine is 770-886-2500

#9

Lots of ways to detune, just use your imagination.

Carter is unlikely to debate this in a public forum. I’d talk to him offline.

Steve, it’s understandable that you’re unhappy about there being a hp limit that draws a line short of your uber-engine, but the other guys that will be there are probably pleased about it. It’s supposed to be about the driver.

#10

[quote=“Ranger” post=73537]Lots of ways to detune, just use your imagination.

Carter is unlikely to debate this in a public forum. I’d talk to him offline.

Steve, it’s understandable that you’re unhappy about there being a hp limit that draws a line short of your uber-engine, but the other guys that will be there are probably pleased about it. It’s supposed to be about the driver.[/quote]

It still is about the driver. The best drivers, always do what’s best for their entire program. What do the people do to win or podium every race? How much testing do people do? How often do you align your car? How often do you nut/bolt the car? What do people do that are trying to podium or crack the top 5 do? People use hp as an excuse for their sub-par driving.

It doesn’t matter if there is a HP rule for 103whp or 300whp the people that win today will win tomorrow and the people that finish 10th today will finish 10th tomorrow…

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppYzeHqYyqw[/video]

Don’t like using examples of myself but here is something? Never driven this configuration and it was my first SpecE30 race. Started 6th and finished 1st by 10 seconds. After making a trip to the dyno for post race tech we found that the car I was in was a solid 10hp down to p2 and p3. It explained the low compression numbers and leak down. 2 years of racing and a 25hr of Thunderhill on a untouched bottom end can do such things…

#11

Charlie, couldn’t agree with you more. With the Vert nearly winning the title twice now, I am just pissed that all of the proper preparation and expense has been done and now the only way to win with the Vert is to spend even more $$ putting in another motor.

#12

tape/attach a piece a carboard or metal plate to the air filter to reduce power.

i bought a car with a fresh rebuilt street motor (from a wrecked car) in it. 150hp with high $ oil. the cost was most likely 2-3K less than a magical 165+hp motor. that’s why it’s cheaper. i

do not agree with changing rules mid season. this type of thing caused a big stir in the autocross community locally. make the rules for the year, then play by those rules. changing rules out the blue in the 7th inning and that’s bad taste.

i do like the rule in general though.

the hp doesn’t matter comment is crap. if one car can draft and pass another, but it can’t happen vice versa, there is a difference. if a 20hp difference doesn’t matter, then why do ppl build race motors?

:slight_smile:

#13

Put the power steering back in!

#14

I agree with Steve, implementing this rule mid season and weeks before nationals is dirty pool. This rule should start for the 2014 season. Let tech at nationals tear cars apart to insure compliance to the previous engine rules…

#15

Do that and I bet your dyno curve doesn’t match the required one. :evil: Besides, I don’t think cardboard “meets or exceeds OEM” as the rule requires.

I don’t currently have a Spec E30 so my opinion doesn’t count. Or it counts more because I don’t have a dog in this fight.

It seems like the leaders would be doing everything possible to increase the size of the championship field. As someone who has made the trek to Miller from a state touching the Atlantic, It was rather disappointing to be in a “championship” race with 6 cars. Granted, I will keep my 3rd place trophy (one step below Ferrario), but…

For the long term health of the class, I’d love to see this rule implemented for 2014.

#16

Can someone post up the dyno results from the nationals last year? I can’t seem to find it for some reason.

#17

Steve D, in response to your question…
[i][b]"the timing of the rule set was due to the fact that NASA believed that SE30 sign ups for Nationals was being squashed by the motor arms race, with your car in the spotlight. Everyone knew you were headed to Nationals…then folks saw that you were selling a perfectly fine 160 hp motor a couple of months before Nationals…then only to learn you had a 170 hp monster at Laguna.

The buzz that NASA was getting, both north and south, was…why waste the time/money/effort to attend Nationals when there is a car in the field that has at least 10+ HP/Tq on the rest of the field.

I know your feeling beat up on, I don’t blame you. But NASA was hoping for a big SE30 field at Nationals this year…SoCal and NorCal racers hitting Utah hard. But with only six entries on the list, despite the breaks in entry fees and the feedback from racers, the conclusion was that the engine arms race was at fault". [/b][/i]

It has now been two weeks since the HP limit was announced. The discounted registration has been extended, Thanks to Walter Fords(Pointsix) generosity to encourage more spece30 & yet still NO new spec e30 drivers have registered. I know of a few drivers on the fence that would register, however, their motors also exceed the new limit.
So I am just wondering why none of the SoCal contingent with the shortest drive to Miller havent signed up except for Mark Powell. Mark purchased my last car this past Feb & the motor was producing 164hp.
C’mon So Cal…Sign up, you now have a fair chance against the BIG NORCAL MOTORS.

#18

Are the big number motors being dyno’d on the ‘spec’ DynoJet? From my experience, the DynoJet dyno appears to report a few HP lower than my ‘home’ dyno which is a Mustang dyno.

#19

Is there a way I can report this to a Moderator, or is that an infinite loop back to Ranger again? :laugh:

#20

Ranger=moderator…