NASA-SE: Firecracker Run, Charlotte(CMS), July 2-3

#21

A great weekend with the Southeast! After getting up to 4th from a disappointing qualifying position of 9th, and getting punted into the wall - slight damage - by a Thunder Roadster, it was certainly easy to get frustrated. However, a group of clean and strong Spec E30 racers made it a good weekend, overall.

Speaking of weak engines, on Sunday, Al and I had some close racing in the infield but once on the oval, he drove away. I had qualified 11th, which is the worst qualifying performance of my 20-year club racing career. I was getting good runs out of the infield and was right up to Al’s bumper. However, I could not stay in his draft. By the end of the back straight, he was 10 car lengths ahead. And after a great couple of laps racing with Warren, I got by in the infield, on the last lap. I had about 8 car lengths on him coming onto the oval (might have been more like 5 lengths - the convex mirror makes it hard to judge the distance) but by the end of the back straight, he drove right past. We’ll be on the dyno prior to VIR for sure.

Also, the car was missing for a couple of seconds coming out of 3B, and after cresting the hill in the right hander. This car has never starved for fuel, and I just replaced the fuel filter and fuel pump. The tank was 65% full. Any suggestions?

I still have the ChemStation soft cooler for Steve D, for his Saturday pole. Shoot me a private message with your address so I can mail it to you.

Thanks again to the group for a fun weekend. I hope to see you at CMP in October.

Carter Hunt
Spec E30 National Series Director

#22

Fishtank

you getting kicked out?

#23

I have a theory on why my car was faster on the oval. I was really taking it easy in turn 7, where I wrecked the white car last year, I was generally lower on the track coming on to the oval than most cars, by the time I got to NASCAR 3 I was cooking…Carter, I noticed you were loose a bunch going through 7, that might have cost you speed on the oval.

Saturday, my gas pedal broke, was not fun but was able to finish, Sunday was pretty intense, but really ran the weekend in a way to preserve the blue car as it is fr sale…the white car will return by the last CMP race, as they say, don’t race a car you are not willing to push off a cliff…

Al

#24

[quote=“FARTBREF” post=58211]Fishtank

you getting kicked out?[/quote]

No, Al Gaylor, I’m not getting kicked out but moving to a new assignment at Fort Leavenworth, KS (not jail). You may have heard about the don’t ask don’t tell repeal; when the Army implements, you can join up!!!

#25

Once again, my weekend involved lapping more or less by myself. :frowning: (But I still had fun!)

The good thing is I learned/proved why I have been so uncompetitive.

  1. A new transmission is worth 3 seconds at Charlotte. - My 4th gear checked out at the end of Saturday’s race. Rob Keehner & I swapped another one in by Sunday’s qualifying heat. The proof is in comparing Sat & Sun qualifying and racing lap times.

  2. My motor lacks top speed talent. After comparing some of my best lap times to other competitor lap times, we found I was pretty quick on the infield elements and was experiencing a top speed deficit of 8-10 mph.

We did a cold leak down on the engine earlier last week. Several of the cylinders wouldn’t hold pressure. We shrugged it off as being due to a cold motor and didn’t have time to repeat warmed up. I had the head reworked and left the bottom end alone in my motor prep. That, along with the no pressure retention, convinces me I need a better bottom end. Hopefully I’ll have a more competitive motor for RA.

Handling-wise, last year’s bit of driving revealed the car to be too loose. Over the winter I upgraded the rear suspension bushings from AKG to slotted weld in tabs. The car was much more adjustable, but still a bit too loose.

We found signs that the Ireland Engineering RSB pinch clamps had contacted the bottom of the car a time or two. I ran the weekend with the RSB disconnected thus changing the polarity of the car’s handling. The car wss real pushy through the infield elements - especially T1, T3 & T7/8. I think I’m going to try backing down to a stock RSB - I did miss the controllable rotation of the car.

KB

#26

[quote=“rrroadster” post=58226]I think I’m going to try backing down to a stock RSB - I did miss the controllable rotation of the car.[/quote]Unfortunately, the rules require a 19 mm rear bar. In some cases it might be nice to have a softer bar than that, but I suspect your handling woes might be caused by something other than rear bar. Were you running full soft when the car was too loose? Was it loose on entry, exit or mid-corner?

#27

Steve is correct. The rules require an unmodified 19mm rear sway bar. You can disconnect the swaybar, but you can’t sustitute a different sway bar.

#28

If your car is tailhappy with the rear sway on full loose, there’s another problem somewhere.

#29

[quote=“FARTBREF” post=58212]I have a theory on why my car was faster on the oval. I was really taking it easy in turn 7, where I wrecked the white car last year, I was generally lower on the track coming on to the oval than most cars, by the time I got to NASCAR 3 I was cooking…Carter, I noticed you were loose a bunch going through 7, that might have cost you speed on the oval.

Saturday, my gas pedal broke, was not fun but was able to finish, Sunday was pretty intense, but really ran the weekend in a way to preserve the blue car as it is fr sale…the white car will return by the last CMP race, as they say, don’t race a car you are not willing to push off a cliff…

Al[/quote]

For sure, the car wanted to rotate some in 7 but I was right on your rear bumper coming onto the oval, several times. It took a few seconds but you (and others) pulled away at a steady clip. I couldn’t stay in the draft. Spectators noticed it and mentioned it after the race. I’ve been around long enough to know what’s going on and my car was off a bit Sunday. I don’t think your car was overly strong - mine was just flat Sunday. Plus, it was running hot during the Sunday race but was not on Saturday. I’m thinking it was running lean; thus the weak power and hot temps. Saturday, I could stay with the cars around me, on the oval. Sunday was a different story.

The racing was still fun but something changed/got worse on Sunday.

#30

Took us a while to start the race recap thread.Looks like we need to work on the post race communications. Myself included, as my car was on the trailer about 15 minutes after the race and I don’t believe I even said goodbye to the race winner/second place/third/ fifth/ eighth/you get the picture. Who was first?

Note to Carter: Thanks for comming down to a Southeast event. The competition is good and the camaderie is even better. Youse guys out in the sun gotta spring for a garage and enjoy the shade and the breeze that occasionally came through.Back to the subject: This is a great series and we do owe you a debt of gratitude for getting the series started way back in 2003. It has been a long time, hasn’t it?

My car also had a fuel problem between 4 ad 5 and up over the hill. Note to self: be sure to have the car COMPLETELY full of fuel before a race start. I thought I could run it a little low (car weighed 2737 on Saturday), but I guess I need to look for weight savings elsewhere.

Charlotte is certainly a horsepower track. Everyone that placed in a position in back of first will say that they were lacking in straightaway talent. We’ll find out next weekend what the numbers are on a good handfull of cars in Atlanta. Looks like the MA guys may dyno at VIR?

Regards, RP

#31

I see the results posted on MyLaps for the lightning group, but is SE30 broken out anywhere so we can see those alone?

#32

Click on “Show Results by Class” just above the header and it will sort the results.

#33

[quote=“Patton” post=58235]My car also had a fuel problem between 4 ad 5 and up over the hill. Note to self: be sure to have the car COMPLETELY full of fuel before a race start. I thought I could run it a little low (car weighed 2737 on Saturday), but I guess I need to look for weight savings elsewhere.[/quote]My car had the exact same issue in the same spots. The over-the-hill one is unique to that track I think. I don’t suffer starvation at any of the other tracks.

#34

Yeah, I’ve been telling myself I need to read the rule book again. Looseness seems to be mid-turn through turn exit. We’re thinking I need more rear camber. The rear subframe(RSF) with the slotted tab upgrade is Keehner’s old 318 RSF. We threw it in and have been monitoring handling and tire wear from it as a base line. We need to measue where the slots currently are and deterimine where they need to be to get 3+ degrees of camber.

I’ve always had the opinion that my car’s height at the rear axle is higher than other Spec E30’s. After disconnecting the RSB, it’s height seemed more appropriate. I can’t help but think the Ireland Engineering RSB and the endlink system are the prime contributors. Unfortunately, when I have inspected them, I can never identify any binding. I noticed the Bimmerworld bar is bent to provide 2 inches of clearance. Anybody running one of those?

#35

[quote=“rrroadster” post=58243]I’ve always had the opinion that my car’s height at the rear axle is higher than other Spec E30’s.[/quote]Higher than similar early cars? I’m always amazed at how different the rear ride height looks on a small bumper car.

[quote] After disconnecting the RSB, it’s height seemed more appropriate. I can’t help but think the Ireland Engineering RSB and the endlink system are the prime contributors.[/quote]If you had so much preload that it affected static ride height, I’d be amazed if you could even move the links.

I wonder if at mid-corner you are reaching the end of travel (bump stop or sway bar) causing the car to snap oversteer? Or does it feel more progressive?

Here’s a handy chart. A lot of this doesn’t apply to what we can change, but it’s helpful. Google “understeer oversteer chart” and you’ll get hits for both flow charts.

[attachment=1556]oversteer.jpg[/attachment]

#36

[quote=“rrroadster” post=58243 I can’t help but think the Ireland Engineering RSB and the endlink system are the prime contributors. Unfortunately, when I have inspected them, I can never identify any binding. I noticed the Bimmerworld bar is bent to provide 2 inches of clearance. Anybody running one of those?[/quote]

I run the Ireland bar, as do several others, and I don’t think this is your problem. Have you removed all the spring pads? This will lower your ride height. Adding more rear camber may certainly tighten up your car a bit as well adjusting your driving style. Perhaps your are getting into the throttle a bit early…

#37

Car has been corner balanced, so spring pads in various thicknesses are present.

Don’t think I’m hitting bump stops because NO looseness was present in the absence of the RSB. I have been running the RSB about an inch from the end. Maybe I need to just run on the end.

Twice this year we’ve bent the spherical rod ends of the links when lowering the car. I’ve had to rob the one’s off my SC’d Miata to replace. The length of the links permit “toggling” when the suspension is unloaded. You have to be careful when lowering the car. I’m going to look at what it will take to prevent from occuring again.

Do the pre '88 cars ride higher in the rear than the 88+? My chassis is an '86.

#38

I don’t think that early model cars ride higher in the rear, but certainly they “look” like they do. Early model cars have different rear sheetmetal that shows more gap above the tire. That makes early model cars appear to ride higher.

I have a continuously adjustable rear sway. I can easily tell the handling difference of a 4mm change (both sides). I currently have it at 10mm from the end. With my links at 14mm from the rear sway ends my car is definately tailhappy. If your rear sway is at an inch, it’s a helova lot tighter then mine is.

My perception is that most folks have rear sways that have holes in them. That means they have discrete adjustment points vs. continuously adjustable. I think that most folks are using the loosest adjustment point. Their rear sways being so different than mine, it’s hard to know if that last hole is tighter or looser than mine.

I’d set the rear sway bar at full loose and feel how much handling changes. I think that it will change a lot. Then you can start making incremental adjustments and find where you like it.

#39

Yeah, just finished reading the RSB thread. After fashioning some new links, I’ll start at full loose and then move in incrementally - and make sure to keep notes in the notebook!

#40

At CMS, i started with my rear bar choked up 10 mm but found the handling too loose. 5 mm seemed to work well. With your bar choked down a full inch, I’d expect your car to be very loose!