High end gauges


#1

I’ve gone thru a lot of gauges. A few warning light ideas too. Not for any good reason I suppose, mostly I just get led around by curiousity.

I’d never paid much attention to high end gauges until now. I’m too much of a cheapskate. But if someone had told me some of the neat features of the high end gauges, I’d a bought some earlier. So here’s some info about high end gauges.

Digital vs. analog. The nice thing about analog is that your brain grasps what it tells you really fast. Digital gauges require a heartbeat’s interpretation and we are often pretty busy behind the wheel.

That being said, digital gauges do a better job of telling you exactly what something is. So, if for whatever reason, you want to know if your oil temp is 212 or 214, you can extract that from a digital gauge a lot faster then an analog gauge.

SPA has a large line of digital gauges. Many of them are dual gauges that could, for example, show both oil temp and oil pressure.

Gauge size vs. full sweep. Most of us have cheap 90deg sweep 2 5/8th gauges. These high end SPA and Stack gauges are all the smaller 2 1/16th in, but they are full 270deg sweep. Equidistant from your eyeballs, they are probably readable with equal precision, but it’s not that hard to put the smaller gauge closer to your eyeballs and then it becomes the winner in being able to read quickly with precision.

Linear vs. non-linear. Cheap 90deg sweep gauges are non-linear. If you look closely at the markings on the gauge you’ll see something along the lines of 20deg of sweep = 20psi on the left of the dial, but 40psi on the right of the dial. Humans are linear creatures so that makes the 90deg sweep gauges harder to read accurately. Nice 270deg sweep gauges are linear.

Accuracy not dependent on sensor grounds. The 2 wire sensors have their own grounds.

Programmable alert functions. SPA gauges will illum a light on the face of the gauge. It’s not much of an attention getter tho. Stack gauges change the background illum of the gauge, which gets your attention pretty quickly. Score 1 for Stack. You can set the Stack such that it’s illum changes from green to white at 220deg for a warning and red at 230deg for a more severe condition.

External lights and devices. The Stack has programmable digital outs. I think the SPA does that, but I haven’t been able to confirm it. Programmable digital outs allow you to trigger warning lights, turn on radiator fans, or whatever you want. The alternative for warning lights is to plumb in switches. Every widgit you plub in just adds a failure point, adds wiring complexity, etc. Adustable pressure switches are easy enough to get, but there’s a limited # of temp switches available and some of them are in darn inconvenient thread sizes.

Stack gauges have a 5V analog out for your data logger. This is a very efficient way to connect a data logger because the alternative is separate sensors for gauges and data. Calibrating a data logger such that it correctly interprets data from a sensor is no picnic. And if you’re using two separate sensors, there’s a real limit to how close your datalogger is ever going to agree with your gauge.

Both gauge systems have peak recall. Darn handy when every track weekend is a test of the various ideas you dreamed up in the past few weeks.

I’m putting Stack oil temp and coolant temp on to the steering console. The gauges are far faster to read there then on the conventional center-dash location, and with integrated warning lights, and analog outs for the data logger, I’ve been able to remove several other sensors and switches that were in my system.

Both Stack and SPA analog face gauges run ~$200.


#2

I use the SPA dual digital gauges (oil temp/press, wtr temp/volts). The warning lights are the key! It allows me to fully concentrate on driving. If the light/s blink I know theres an issue. I’ve got them down in the ashtray location now… need to get them up higher.


#3

NASA144 wrote:

I have no idea how you could possibly use gauges in your ashtray.

My current warning lights are banks of LEDs sitting on top of the dash, aimed right at my eyeballs. When I was fooling around with warning lights I bought a buncho of different things and tested each for brightness both on and off axis. Off axis meaning the light could be on the center console so you’d see it at an angle. The warning lights I eventually chose are really really bright. There’s no way I’d see a little SPA LED OP warning light on the center console in time to save the engine.

Temperature warning lights. I’m not convinced that these are all that useful. If you’re checking your gauges once/lap, you’ll see temperatures climbing in time to do something about it. Warning lights are needed for coolant and oil pressure. For those that are unaware of it, if you lose coolant, your temp sensor won’t tell you.

The primary reason I got the Stack’s is their analog out. I’ve tried a number of different ideas to get good sensor data to the Traqmate and nothing has worked very well. IMO the only way to do this is gauges with analog outs, or one of the expensive integrated dashboard replacement data loggers.


#4

I think if you add up all the costs your not too far off a dash/logger like the IQ3.


#5

kishg wrote:

Probably so.

But I’ve learned an ass-load about what to monitor, why to monitor, and how to monitor. Lessons learned always have a cost. Also, the charms of an integrated dash are not at all obvious to a newby.

There’s some disads of an integrated dash too. I like analog dials, for quick reading, but sometimes I want to know 213deg from 215deg because I did something different and I’m trying to understand what impact that change might have had. For a while I had both analog and digital dials. Also, a dash/logger attempts to condense a lot of info into a small place and that isn’t always ideal.

There’s the issue of flexibility too. For a while I had several analog and digital gauges wired to switches so I could switch the gauge to a different sensor. When you’re curious about what’s going on and your trying to confirm hunches or other folks opinions, your gauge system needs to have a lot of flexibility.

Sure, you can program some interesting features of the current digital dashes, but in the end, it’s only going to present the data it’s way.

The idea solution would be a faily large digital dash with a high resolution display, not primitive 20yr old LCD/backlight technology. Then you could design whatever visual features you wanted, and put them wherever you wanted on the display. Put 2 OT gauges on the right, just above your OP gauge. Make the gauges have analog needles with a digital center. Put coolant temp gauges on the right. Make the entire gauge turn yellow at an alert threshold and flash red at an alarm threshold. Make your speedo a black bar graph that surrounds your analog tach display. All of the display unit realestate should be entirely configurable. Then have soft keys around the perimeter to execute your pre-programmed instructions.

Now that would be cool.


#6

while that would be cool i think the design criteria is to allow these units to be used by average racers not IT geeks with too much time on their hands :slight_smile: I’m a bit confused by your requirement to know 213 from 215. Isn’t that why you are logging the data? To analyze after the fact, not in the car. All I’d look at is warning lights and as long as you can program several thresholds that should be sufficient for in car. The rest of the analysis would happen off track.


#7

kishg wrote:

Agreed. Once I can reliably get accurate sensor data from the data logger, there’s no use for digital gauges. I’ve high hopes that these Stack gauges will be a big step in that direction. I had to return one of the two that I bought because it was DOA. Tonight the replacement will arrive and I’ll see if I can test the calibration by running the engine a while. This is not without risk. A little too much noise and the cute blond next door will go on the warpath. \

The cute ones are often a little high strung.


#8

ah ranger, always living on the edge :slight_smile:


#9

Ranger wrote:

Actually, they are all like that. We just ignore the ugly ones.


#10

It’s street/track use now… when it’s full track the gauges will go up in the dash-vent.
I should see coolant dumping in the rear view, right?


#11

NASA144 wrote:

:laugh:


#12

NASA144 wrote:

[quote]It’s street/track use now… when it’s full track the gauges will go up in the dash-vent.
I should see coolant dumping in the rear view, right?[/quote]
Engine #5 was killed by coolant loss. The first thing that happens is that the coolant drops away from the sensor, so your temp gauge isn’t going to tell you. The driver, not me, brought the car in when oil hit 270deg.


#13

I just figured out that Autometer has a line of gauges they call “Elite” that might be a better choice than the Stack gauges. The Autometer gauges are about the same price but have more gauge colors and have a flashing warn feature. That means that you could run your gauges normally in “White”, set a warn color of Amber and then have the gauges flash Red when hitting an alarm threshold.

Stack has only white, green and red. Really needs an amber. And no flashing. The different colors are really nice. Just reading the description of the gauges doesn’t do the idea justice.


#14

IIRCC Autometer bought Stack


#15

rrroadster wrote:

Ya, I was thinking that the gauges looked awfully darn similar. Thx for the info.


#16

[quote=“Ranger” post=52139]kishg wrote:

The idea solution would be a faily large digital dash with a high resolution display, not primitive 20yr old LCD/backlight technology. Then you could design whatever visual features you wanted, and put them wherever you wanted on the display. Put 2 OT gauges on the right, just above your OP gauge. Make the gauges have analog needles with a digital center. Put coolant temp gauges on the right. Make the entire gauge turn yellow at an alert threshold and flash red at an alarm threshold. Make your speedo a black bar graph that surrounds your analog tach display. All of the display unit realestate should be entirely configurable. Then have soft keys around the perimeter to execute your pre-programmed instructions.

Now that would be cool.[/quote]

That’s funny - I’ve been investigating gauge options for our new car, and come to the same conclusion. Something like an iPad or 7" Android tablet mounted in the former gauge cluster, and one could monitor what was important for that outing, completely customizable. With the addition of configurable soft buttons that perform multiple functions…say turn on a fan, set a marker in the data, and tweet about leading the race, all with one press. B)

Good info on the Stack setup though, thanks.


#17

These guys make a dash that does most of everything you can want.
http://www.rlcracing.com/


#18

These guys make a dash that does most of everything you can want.
http://www.rlcracing.com/


#19

[quote=“NASA144” post=52220]It’s street/track use now… when it’s full track the gauges will go up in the dash-vent.
I should see coolant dumping in the rear view, right?[/quote]

For coolant dumping…in addition to my OP/WT gauges with warning lights, I added an additional warning light for low coolant pressure. The thought being that if you suddenly lost coolant (and somehow didn’t spin in your own mess) that loss of pressure would be an earlier warning signal than a temp climb. I bought mine from Pegasus Racing:

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8


#20

[quote=“sneville44” post=54830][quote=“NASA144” post=52220]It’s street/track use now… when it’s full track the gauges will go up in the dash-vent.
I should see coolant dumping in the rear view, right?[/quote]

For coolant dumping…in addition to my OP/WT gauges with warning lights, I added an additional warning light for low coolant pressure. The thought being that if you suddenly lost coolant (and somehow didn’t spin in your own mess) that loss of pressure would be an earlier warning signal than a temp climb. I bought mine from Pegasus Racing:

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8[/quote]

That’s the right idea. Cheaper from egauges tho.