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I fear for my life even starting this thread, but, afew people have asked about using an R3 with HANS anchor points that are already on your helmet.
I called Safety Solutions this morning and spoke to Angela and she said it’s perfectly ok to use the HANS anchors and location with the R3.
I specificailly asked if it would effect any certifications (SFI or others) and she said it would not.
That’s the word from the manufacturer. Please don’t shoot the messager on this one.
given that there could be some significant after-the-fact finger pointing on this, I would get it in writing, and not from the person who answers the phone.
cheers,
bruce
Also, I’m more concerned with using the actual HANS hardware–tethers and posts–not just the same mounting points. Many helmets come pre-drilled for HANS, so they may get that question quite often (using those holes for an R3) and not have noticed the distinction.
Bruce Leggett wrote:
[quote]given that there could be some significant after-the-fact finger pointing on this, I would get it in writing, and not from the person who answers the phone.
cheers,
bruce[/quote]
Bruce, sorry to put it this way but there will never be any finger pointing regarding a H&N system as none of these resume any liability. If you wreck and die it’s only because you assume the risk.
Finger pointing is for people that are too scared to race cars. You should have learned in HPDE 1 how to do the pass signal. That is all you get if something fails.
Michael, I asked them specficially about the hardware AND the mounting position and both are good.
BTW, the call I got was checked out from the top of Safety Solutions.
Thanks for the information, Jeff. I want to wait and here what SFI has to say as well. It just sounds too good to be true. :laugh:
family of dead racer claims it is gross negligence that Safety Solutions said a non-SFI certified configuration was ok to use, and that NASA allowed a non-SFI config to go on track (when we get to the point where they require it). Will it prevail, probably not, will the lawyers be expensive, yup. I’d just like to see it in writing from Safety Solutions that it is a SFI 38.1 certified configuration, not just that it "works fine".
thanks,
bruce
Jeff Hall wrote:
[quote]Bruce Leggett wrote:
[quote]given that there could be some significant after-the-fact finger pointing on this, I would get it in writing, and not from the person who answers the phone.
cheers,
bruce[/quote]
Bruce, sorry to put it this way but there will never be any finger pointing regarding a H&N system as none of these resume any liability. If you wreck and die it’s only because you assume the risk.
Finger pointing is for people that are too scared to race cars. You should have learned in HPDE 1 how to do the pass signal. That is all you get if something fails.
Michael, I asked them specficially about the hardware AND the mounting position and both are good.
BTW, the call I got was checked out from the top of Safety Solutions.[/quote]
Oh, I understand your reasoning, I’m just saying that I would be shock and amazed if ANY of the companies that provide ANY of the motorsports equipment would put ANYTHING in writing for ANYONE. That is, of course, other then the "Absolute Exclusion" wording that is on pretty much each and every item sold.
Can it go to trial, sure anything can. Will it go anywhere? Not at this point. The manufacturers of Motorsports equipment have been VERY successful against any and all cases.
The general public doesn’t race and thinks only crazy people do. Your on your own here.
The best risk management suggestion I can give you is this: if you need to run both a HANS and a R3, Buy two helmets!
Bill Zawrotny wrote:
Oh come now. You can’t generalize like that! Besides, some have hot girl friends.
Now, if a lawyer was to be without a hot girl friend, well then it’s likely most (if not all) Spec E30 folks won’t even talk to him.
The reply from SFI:
[quote]Thank you for your email. The SFI Spec 38.1 requires that the certified
product remain as constructed by the manufacturer and not modified. It also
requires that the product be used in the configuration as representative to
what was tested for certification. Interchanging parts as you described
below would unfortunately void the certification of your SFI 38.1 device.[/quote]
Michael - thanks for the update. Oh well, it would have been nice, but guess we will have to live with the factory set-up.
Ed
Is there an issue with adding R3 anchor points? My G-force helmet came pre-drilled for the useless G-force anchor bar thingy and it took me less than 30 minutes to drill and attach the R3 clips. What is the big hangup with the Hans points? I realize it may seem a tad scary to think about, but the second you start working on the helmet, you realize how easy it really is.
Rob Summers wrote:
No, I’ve done it. I just prefer the HANS anchors and might need to use both an R3 and a HANS in the future, so it would be nice to have one set of anchor points.
I forwarded you SFI response to the folks at SS?LFT and the response I got back told me that NASCAR wanted drivers with R3’s to use HANS anchors. Here is the key part of that email: "NASCAR has actually requested that the HANS clips and posts be used with our device for the Cup, Bush and Truck drivers. NASCAR uses SFI Certifications."
I am waiting to hear more on this subject directly from Trevor, but if NASCAR (which is a HUGE SFI certified group) feels it’s ok, I think we should be ok with it.
I’ll keep all posted!
Jeff
NASCAR does their own thing. They didn’t allow the R3 when it was SFI certified. They just started allowing the Hybrid (in addition to the HANS). Same with Grand-Am, which is basically NASCAR2.
Michael Skeen wrote:
Don’t shoot the messenger! All I am doing is passing on the info I get. I’ll let you know when I hear more.
I was mostly responding to your commentary (if they say it’s ok, it’s good for us.). I look forward to hearing what more info you get, and thanks for doing the legwork.