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Gentlemen,
Where are we going to run in GTS? It seems that we can make our cars fit into 1 or 2, so are we going to have a consensus on one or another? My vote is we run GTS 1 so we are completive with other make cars. Also splitting the cars between the two doesn’t let us race together with the same comradery we have in the Spec E30 group…
Hi Bennett,
I signed up for GTS 2 but would happily switch to GTS1. I think you make a great point about all of the spec e30 running together…we only seem to be competitive in GTS2 if the heavyweights aren’t running…
Are guys going to run RA1’s or something a bit more sticky?
Steve Ferrario wrote:
[quote]Hi Bennett,
I signed up for GTS 2 but would happily switch to GTS1. I think you make a great point about all of the spec e30 running together…we only seem to be competitive in GTS2 if the heavyweights aren’t running…
Are guys going to run RA1’s or something a bit more sticky?[/quote]
Our cars fit best in GTS1 if you have around 150 hp, but if you have any decent GTS1 cars in your region you won’t be competitive with them either if you run Toyo’s. In spec E30 trim I’m about 1.5 to 2 seconds behind GTS1 and 5 seconds behind GTS2 at Mid Ohio. I will say our region probably has the most developed front running GTS cars in 1,2 & 3. I could run at the front of GTS1 probably 3 years ago in our region. But the GTS cars get faster every year. This will happen in your region eventually as well.
I think it would be a lot of fun, we always have Chuck Buzzetti in GTS1, so it’s not about winning for us it’s going to be about track time. I might be in GTS1 as well when we do events here in SoCal.
Steve Ferrario wrote:
[quote]Hi Bennett,
I signed up for GTS 2 but would happily switch to GTS1. I think you make a great point about all of the spec e30 running together…we only seem to be competitive in GTS2 if the heavyweights aren’t running…
Are guys going to run RA1’s or something a bit more sticky?[/quote]
I plan to run somthing sticker, not sure what yet!!!
I am not running GTS this year but would recommend all spec e30s to run GTS1. You will have no chance in GTS2 with any car built for the class. Paul Gettings pretty much beat me every time he was out there in his merc which is probably only built to 90% of it’s capacity! He was 1 to 2 seconds faster and just faded away in my horizon! If you weigh 2775 and make 150 hp you are good. Adjust your weight or hp and run GTS1 it is more suited to spec e30.
GTS 1 or 2 is about track time and fighting with your buddies one extra time each day. In GTS2 as mentioned our cars don’t have a chance if competive cars show up. In GTS1 we can be if no built cars show,…but if you are Steve or anyone with HP of 155-160 you will have to add 200 lbs (do the calculation) and then you are really taxing the car with out brake and suspension mods on top of tires.
IF your HP is low and your TQ is high you have an advantage. If I was building a GTS car from the ground up,… and I may next year, as I love the format and idea, I would build the motor specifically to make tons of TQ. A diesel would have a huge advantage. So the Spec motors with 140tq/150hp will need to add weight if you are 150tq/140hp you won’t.
Any body know of a 335d salvage title?
Hey Guys,
I am going to run GTS1 again this year as I started in GTS1 last year then swithched to GTS2 for a couple of races to run with the other spec e30 guys, then back to GTS1. This year I will start the season in GTS1 and run the whole time in GTS1! I encourage all to run in GTS1 if you have 150 hp or under or add weight. If you have Steve F. hp well add alot of weight!!!
Scott C
the Shoe wrote:
[quote]So the Spec motors with 140tq/150hp will need to add weight if you are 150tq/140hp you won’t.
[/quote]
This is not right they take the highest of the 2. So you would run the same weight in this scenario. You want the tq and hp the same and a good area under the curve.
Elephant4 wrote:
[quote]the Shoe wrote:
[quote]So the Spec motors with 140tq/150hp will need to add weight if you are 150tq/140hp you won’t.
[/quote]
This is not right they take the highest of the 2. So you would run the same weight in this scenario. You want the tq and hp the same and a good area under the curve.
http://www.nasagts.com/rules/GTS_Class_Index_Calc.xls[/quote]
With all due respect Simon, I stand by my statement. Run the numbers for yourself. I have run the numbers 100 times in all different scenarios. HP and TQ numbers do not have equal weighting in the GTS calculation. Try it!
Kevin
Example from the GTS Excell spreadsheet Class calculator
Weight 2750
RWHP 150
TQ 140
Index 18.33
Class GTS2
Weight 2750
RWHP 140
TQ 150
Index 18.97
Class GTS1
Two cents… Kevin - agree that running GTS is, in all reality, about getting extra track time and running with our buddies (in our case, the other SE30 guys). I’ll toss out my thoughts.
1 - If it really is about gutting track time and racing with our buds, we should have consensus as you indicated, and all class together. No need to split the group.
2 - Since our cars’ natural weight has dropped 50 lbs to 2700 lbs and some cars won’t be able to class GTS1 without adding a bunch of ballast and most, if not all, will have to add at least a fair bit , why not just all run GTS2? Scrambling about between sessions +/- ballast = PITA. So…why bother with the hassle factor if we agree it’s primarily about extra time and racing amongst ourselves?
3 - Keeping with that theme, would we want to consider agreeing to all running Toyos? The reason I suggest this is to keep costs down (no extra rims necessary and no need to spend $$$ on Hoosiers/Hankooks/whatever). That is, of course, if we really want just want to get the afore-mentioned extra track time and race with our fellow SE30s. Some folks running Hoosiers and others on Toyos splits the “class” further.
4 - Since we’re not going to be able to make all GTS races (due to SE30/GTS run group overlap at some events), our primary focus is, naturally, SE30. Do GTS points really mean all that much to us? I know some of the folks ran toward the top of GTS points last year, but if any of the GTS guys make all the races, that won’t/can’t happen.
Just throwing it out there. The fun (for me) is the closeness of the competition and being around you guys. From my perspective, splitting us up by class or $$$ doesn’t make our group any better or allow us to have any more fun. Does it really matter if guys in properly prepared GTS cars can beat our SE30s?
Jim
IMO, the best thing would be to get GTS to add a rule that says that a spec e30 rules compliant car driven in GTS automatically goes in GTS1, regardless of dyno. Drivers being equal, there’s no way that a spec e30 can compete in GTS2. Again, drivers being equal, it’s very unlikely that a spec e30 on RA1’s is going to kick the ass of a properly built GTS1 car.
The Austins weren’t super positive on that proposal, but I think the case could be made to the national GTS guys?
This won’t really impact me in 2011 (2nd kid due in July is a way bigger factor), but maybe it will when it’s all sorted out in the future 
the Shoe wrote:
[quote]With all due respect Simon, I stand by my statement. Run the numbers for yourself. I have run the numbers 100 times in all different scenarios. HP and TQ numbers do not have equal weighting in the GTS calculation. Try it!
Kevin[/quote]
I stand corrected, it seems it takes an average of hp and torque if the torque is higher but not if the hp is higher.
So just ran the numbers on my car HP146, TQ 142, with the SpecE30 minimum weight 2700 plus 2lbs=GTS1 (18.51) with DOT tires, I can manage that weight with fuel. But with slicks my car weight will have to be 2920lbs that’s 217lbs of ballast from the 2700lbs SpecE30 minimum. With past weights, full tank, spare, and 1 race I would weight around 2775lbs so from that point I would have to add 145lbs of ballast for GTS1 w/slicks or run GTS2 at 2700lbs w/slicks (man slicks were fun to run)… Does this sound correct or am I missing something???
All this is if I can get my car down to 2700lbs, 2730-2740lbs is probably more realistic, that’s still a lot of ballast.
My choices seem to be GTS1 w/dot tires, GTS2 w/either tires.
In the spirit of more track time with the boys and to keep costs down its GTS1 w/dot tires but if we all decide in GTS2 I’m not sure what tires I will run.
OK boys, Kinda like the Honda Commercial way back when…“I just wanna ride”…well in this case race…Just tell me where I can run. For me, I could give 2 shits about winning this class…impossible unless I was willing to give up running spec e30 & make GTS the goal & modify the car…We all know that there will not be an opportunity to supersize every event of the season, so lets just make a collective decision so that we can all run together.
I love you guys…
I guess I was missing something, it was brought to my attention that Hoosiers/Hankooks are DOT tires not slicks so it’s GTS1 on DOT tires for me:whistle:
BW Jim wrote:
[quote]Two cents… Kevin - agree that running GTS is, in all reality, about getting extra track time and running with our buddies (in our case, the other SE30 guys). I’ll toss out my thoughts.
1 - If it really is about gutting track time and racing with our buds, we should have consensus as you indicated, and all class together. No need to split the group.
2 - Since our cars’ natural weight has dropped 50 lbs to 2700 lbs and some cars won’t be able to class GTS1 without adding a bunch of ballast and most, if not all, will have to add at least a fair bit , why not just all run GTS2? Scrambling about between sessions +/- ballast = PITA. So…why bother with the hassle factor if we agree it’s primarily about extra time and racing amongst ourselves?
3 - Keeping with that theme, would we want to consider agreeing to all running Toyos? The reason I suggest this is to keep costs down (no extra rims necessary and no need to spend $$$ on Hoosiers/Hankooks/whatever). That is, of course, if we really want just want to get the afore-mentioned extra track time and race with our fellow SE30s. Some folks running Hoosiers and others on Toyos splits the “class” further.
4 - Since we’re not going to be able to make all GTS races (due to SE30/GTS run group overlap at some events), our primary focus is, naturally, SE30. Do GTS points really mean all that much to us? I know some of the folks ran toward the top of GTS points last year, but if any of the GTS guys make all the races, that won’t/can’t happen.
Just throwing it out there. The fun (for me) is the closeness of the competition and being around you guys. From my perspective, splitting us up by class or $$$ doesn’t make our group any better or allow us to have any more fun. Does it really matter if guys in properly prepared GTS cars can beat our SE30s?
Jim[/quote]
Sounds good to me Jim.
I think I’d point out at this point with se30 spring rates you’re probably just destroying those expensive Hoosiers rather than getting a ton of benefit out of them. There are certainly some quickie changes that could be made to help a se30 be more competitive, but I think we’ll all still find ourselves right in the same ballpark in the supersize sessions anyhow.
There’s always PT as well, I haven’t created a build sheet for a se30 or looked too closely at the 2011 rules, but those rules tend to favor a less-built car unlike the GTS rules which favor a car with a 10K+ suspension and very carefully optimized power.
Might be worth a shot if I get a free moment or two before Feb 12th. 