Getting ready to start building my E30 racer

#1

Hi All,

I am getting ready to start preparing my E30 car. I have a pretty stock '89 325is. I have found a locally (and probably beyond) well known and respected builder for my cage. I spent sometime chatting with him on the phone this morning and he was very sure to mention that I review all the rules and regulations pertaining to the roll cage installation and what can and cannot be removed from the car.

I have yet to start stripping the interior of the car, but from what I gather from the rules pretty much everything in the passenger compartment can be removed with the exception of the dash.

He also told me that I needed to have my seat available so he could make sure that the cage would not interfere with the seat or me when I was sitting in it.

The questions I have so far are:

  1. What kind of seat is preferred. I have completed the Skip Barber 3 day and 2 day advanced racing schools (Road Atlanta and Laguna Seca) and they use the Sparco Evo 2 seat. I am 6’0" and about 175# and I found this seat to be a good fit. Are there any seats that I should consider over and above this, or is this a quality seat?

  2. If I interpret the rules correctly I can apply for a provisional license on the basis of having completed the Skip Barber schools, but I would prefer to participate in at least a few HPDE’s first. If I do this, what kind of seat do I need for the instructor? I recall reading somewhere that the instructor should have the same kind of seat as the driver, is this correct?

  3. Is a window net required? The NASA CCR’s state that it is, but I don’t see anything in the Spec E30 rules. I’m assuming that it is.

  4. Can the front door panels be removed? I would like to get the NASCAR style door bars which would at least make cutting the driver’s side door panel a necessity.

  5. In the NASA CCR’s they say that a side impact head restraint is required (15.17.9). Is this something I should get before getting the roll cage installed, or is it a standard piece of kit that can be installed later?

  6. Can I rivet or weld a steel panel over the sunroof hole if is not completely flush with the roof line?

I think that’s probably enough questions for now! I would like to get my car legal and safe before I start working on the performance. Any additional advice would be extremely welcome.

Many thanks,

Andy

#2

I’m sure that smarter and better informed folks will chime in, but my takes is:

(1) The best seat is one that you fit into well. And the usual way of finding out what works is to attend events where there are a wide variety of cars and ask (nicely) if you can sit in a seat to see how it feels. The Sparco Evo’s are good seats, but that might even be a better seat for you.

(2) Skippys schools are good, but I’d say that you should do a bunch of DE’s and get into run groups that have open passing (NASA DE 3/4) before going racing.

(3) Yes a window net is required. And in your seat doesn’t have head protection a center net is required.

(4) Yes the door panels can be removed. You have to do that (and remove the window glass & regulator) if you include NASCAR bars in the cage implementation. For a car that will retain the windows the door panel can be replaced by a sheet to 1/16" aluminum.

(5) This can be a seat with head protection or a center net.

(6) Yes. Or you can fix the sun roof panel in the hole. That can be done on the outside or inside of the car.

Before building a car it would be a good idea to see what other Spec E30’s look like. That can be done at any NASA race weekend.

#3

Where do you live? We should help you get in touch with the guys in your region. One of them is sure to volunteer for a mentoring sort of role. If you live in the Mid-Atlantic tho, we’d best hook you up with a SE region mentor. If you have any talent your Mid-Atl mentor will tell you to add 500lb of ballast or something.

#4

welcome Andy

an answer to 2. - the passenger seat does not need to match the drivers seat for HPDE (see 11.4.12) (ditto for seatbelts/harnesses) Some instructors will be reluctant if there is too much difference between the safety equipment for driver and passenger.

comment on 3. - the SE30 rules add to (and can supercede) the CCR rules so things are generally not repeated in the SE30 rules if they are in the CCR.

cheers,
bruce

#5

Advice from my build experience:

  1. Sparco Circuit Pro for me (6’2" 195 lbs - try the Circuit if you are skinny). It is a halo seat, which means you don’t need separate side head protection. It is an FIA seat which means you don’t need the seat back brace.

Buy the seat and side mounts (and sliders if you might share the car) and have the cage builder fabricate the mounting points so they are tied to the cage and floor pan.

  1. I agree with previous comments. When I am instructing and see the same equipment on the passenger side, I feel much better about the driver.

  2. & 4) Yes

  3. See #1

  4. I had my cage builder fabricate some tabs that connect the sunroof panel to the roof, but a lot of folks rivet a sheet of flat stock to the roof (overlapping an inch or two). The rule only requires the panel to be flush if you re-use the original type. If you use a “completely flat sheet” it can be secured to the roof in any manner. Of course, since the roof has a but of a curve, it is impossible to fasten a COMPLETELY flat sheet that also follows the curve, but that’s probably one of the small holes in the rules.:wink:

#6

Thanks for all the great replies and advice.

It looks like the Sparco Circuit seat will be the one I go with. A friend of mine who had recently completed HPDE 1 and 2 left the regular passenger seat in his E30 and didn’t have any problem with instructors, but his driver’s seat was not particularly fancy either. I’m not too keen on splashing out another $800 or so if I don’t have to. Would something like a Sparco Tec Seat be sufficient? I don’t want the instructors to think I don’t value their safety either!

As far as the seat mount goes, will the standard Sparco side mount work in the E30?

I am located in Athens, just under an hour from Road Atlanta. I was hoping to get everything together in time to get started in the HPDE there in December.

Thanks again,

Andy

#7

Lots of different organizations run DE’s so there’s lots of different ideas as to what is workable and what isn’t. If your intent is for the passenger to have an OEM seat and a 3 point, while you are in a race seat and a 6 point, some organizations will not allow you to take a passenger. So if you press on with that (lousy) idea, you just have to contact the organizers ahead of time and get their blessing.

It won’t cost you $800 to create a passenger seat. I bought my pair of seats for $400. Expired harnesses can be bought for beer money. You can probably find an aluminum passenger seat for $100.

If I might make a suggestion…don’t underestimate the degree of difficulty here. Most folks have a helova lot more seat time then you’ve described before they start racing. You’ve had 5 days of schooling. You might think about doing 40 or 50 track days before racing. I had a 100 before comp school, but hopefully you learn faster then me. I’m sure the Skippy schools were very good, but it takes time to develop skills and reflexes and there’s no substitute for that.

#8

Andy, go to the BMWCCA O’fest event at RA this weekend with a list of further questions and a group of 10 or so spec e30 racers will gladly answer and show you how-to.

Is Eversly in Winder doing the cage?
Tell Jon that we all said hello.

Regards, Robert Patton

#9

greensha wrote:

Horrible idea. Don’t do it – even if the organizer would allow it.

The quality of instruction will increase dramatically if your instructor is not preoccupied with throughts like “I wonder why he’s all safe and cocooned over there and gives me an oh $hit handle to hang on to over here?” and “I wonder how soon I can sign this guy off to solo so I can get my a$$ outta this crapcan?”

[quote] As far as the seat mount goes, will the standard Sparco side mount work in the E30? [\quote]
Not without a lot of work. I believe there are pre-made mounts to fit the E30. Cruise around bimmerforums and find some info.

PS - I have some out-of-date belts I can send you for postage. Or come to CMP for Turkey Trot, which would give you a wide variety of E30s to look at as you enter the final month before your December event.

#10

Thanks again for all your advice.

Point taken: I will invest in a quality seat for the passenger/instructor.

Ranger, I definitely plan on doing as much HPDE as it takes for me to get the point where I (and NASA) feel I am ready for the comp school. I think I got a pretty good grounding in car control at Barber, but I need more seat time.

Steve D, I just checked my schedule and I am off the week before the Turkey Trot at CMP. I’ll plan on coming up and seeing what I can learn. Maybe I can trade you those out-of-dates belts for some beer. I was at CMP a couple of weeks ago for the Lemons event. I was the only person on my team not to get a black flag!

Patton, John is doing my cage. I’ll certainly pass on the greetings. I’d love to come to RA this weekend but I’m on-call unfortunately.

Thanks again,

Andy

#11

Steve D wrote:

PS - I have some out-of-date belts I can send you for postage. Or come to CMP for Turkey Trot, which would give you a wide variety of E30s to look at as you enter the final month before your December event.[/quote]

Dammit! Oh well, snooze you lose :S

Welcome Andy and I hope you will make it to RA in December. My car (Miss Prissy) is under construction and evolving as we work our way through HPDE.

#12

DDO wrote:

[quote]Steve D wrote:

I’ll look through my Big Box O’ Belts in the basement and see what I have. I might have more than one set of old belts. Anything to help get more E30s on track! :woohoo:

#13

You da man Steve! Thanks! See you at CMP if not at RA this weekend.

#14

Andy, Eversly does good work. His problem is scheduling.
If you take it in on Monday, be sure he starts on Tuesday or you could be weeks away from a completion…or at least that’s how it was 3 years ago.

Call should you want a further explanation or need any tips 770-886-2500.

Good luck, RP

#15

DDO wrote:

I have 3 sets of out-of-date belts: two sets of Sparco 6 point and one set of SafeQuip 5 point harnesses.

I will have them in my gear bag at CMP. Andy and Dexter have dibs on two sets, but the other set is up for grabs.

#16

If the third set isn’t claimed, I’ll take them. Unfortunately I’m in PA and will not be at CMP. My build is in process and will need a set to continue DE until I’m ready for comp school. I’ll cover the shipping if they are still available. Zip is 18612.

Joe

#17

OK, Joe. You get the SafeQuip belts and Dexter & Andy get the Sparcos. That way they can’t fight over who gets which kind. :laugh:

It will probably be next week before I can mail them. I’ll let you know what the postage bill is.

#18

Thanks Steve!

I’ve been stripping out the interior this week in preparation for the roll cage installation. Is there an easy way to get the carpet out in one piece? Do folks leave in the tar/adhesive stuff? What about door seals?

As far as seats for the passenger/instructor I was going to go with either the Sparco Sprint 5 or Tec seat. The Sprint 5 looks like it is a little less snug. They are both FIA homologated.

If I can get everything together in time I may be able to bring my car to CMP for an HPDE, if they have any space available.

Thanks again,

Andy

#19

There’s no easy way to get the carpet out in one piece, but it can be done. If you don’t want to cut the carpet around the HVAC box, you’ll have to remove the dash and then the HVAC box.

Take all of the tar out of the cabin. Keep the door seals.

#20

Andy,

As far as seats go, I’m about your size (6’2" and 175 lbs). I got Corbeau FX seats, one FX Pro and one FX1.

I have the FX Pro on the driver’s side now. Fits very well in the waist and is just a little snug in the shoulders, which may be a good thing. I put the bigger seat on the passenger side in case I get a heftier instructor.

I like the seats and they are relatively inexpensive as racing seats go, ~ $300. They come with an attachment bolt for a seat back brace. Corbeau also makes sliders that fit the E30. I put my driver’s seat on a slider and the passenger on side mounts, in case someone else drives my car.

Good luck with the build.