Future of Spec E30 SU Class

#1

All:

Due to the virtual non-existance of any SU Class cars, Mike and I agree that we will begin a phase-out of Spec E30 SU. This will make life easier for us, the NASA Regions and NASA National, and for the drivers.

Our initial plan is to make this 2006 season the last SU racing season and to drop the class (SO and SU) designations by Jan. 1, 2007.

After that, there will only be "Spec E30." The 318is will still have a place in the new Spec E30 Series although most agree that the 325i car is the one to build.

I orignially included SU because there are so many 318i and eta cars on the road but it is obvious that SU hasn’t been popular among our drivers and future drivers.

Is anyone actively building an SU car right now? If so, one option is to allow the registration of a 318 or eta Spec E30 car in a Spec E30 race but that the car will race with the rest of us. Of course, the car would not be competitive.

If possible, we really don’t want to get into that and for sure, those cars will eventually not be allowed to register for a Spec E30 race. Forrest and Alex successfully swapped from an eta engine to the 325i engine and both have raced at the front. So for a few hundred dollars and a few days of wrenching, a built SU car can become an SO car. And if you’re anywhere near Raleigh, NC, I’ll help.

If anyone is building an SU car right now, and can provide some photos to show your progress, we would like to hear from you.

I always wanted SU to flourish but I have to admit that one "Spec E30" is the best road for our future.

Carter

#2

I understand the logic in this and since I’m building a 325is, I’m unaffected. However, I imagine this was a tough call to make. It seems that the SpecE30 rules could be written to be all-inclusive of any e30 that adheres to the SpecE30 and NASA CCR rule sets, regardless of engine. This would be an all-inclusive policy, but I imagine that much as has already happened, people will self-select the 325i motor. Those with SU cars could continue to run at the back of the pack if they choose.

Sasha

#3

What makes it so hard to have an SU class?

If you want to have just one class for all the cars, why not let the previously classed SU cars have a weight advantage?

While there may not be (m)any eta SU cars out there now, I still have a soft spot in for the eta motor. The only reason we put an i motor in our car is because there wasn’t anyone else to run with.

#4

Mel:

I have a soft spot for them too and really thought that class would grow…but I was wrong.

One problem with keeping the SU cars and allowing a weight break is that the cars will be faster in different parts of the track. This will cause dive-bomb braking and a strong urge to block on the straights.

Another problem is that we would be setting-up a finger-pointing situation where the slower cars (i’s or e’s) would always ask for some kind of advantage if they were not quite as quick. Think Ford/Chevy/Dodge in NASCAR.

We’re already going to deal with this in SO since we have 325i and 318is cars, although we’re encouraging guys to build 325i cars. Putting even more cars in in one class would make it that much more difficult.

Carter

#5

FWIW:

I’m really interested in Spec e30, but I’m too new to driving in general (this is my second season of DEs) and too poor to write checks for lots and lots of DEs and finance building a racecar.

So with that in mind, I’ve written off Spec e30 as a short-term plan and made a few mods to my 325e that would preclude me from the SU class - namely chip, 325i exhaust and a 3.25 ratio rear end.

Also, since I decided (along with everyone else it seems) that the SU class had very few participants, I’d swap to a m20b25 if I were to get into Spec e30. That would mean replacing the diff anyway, so why not get a better ratio between now and then?

Anyway, so how about allowing the eta cars to run with the i cars, but allow them chips, 3.25 diffs, and 2-pipe exhausts? :stuck_out_tongue:

#6

Carter,

I understand your logic for not wanting to have one class, but I don’t really see why there still can’t be two classes. I think that there could come a time when a coupld guys want to build some SU cars… The motors don’t rev as high and seem to be less mechanical issues with them. While the startup cost is probably the same between an eta and an i, the maintenence costs could be lower.

Where I am coming from is, while it doesn’t affect me to eliminate SU class, it doesn’t seem right for a couple of guys to close it down. I know you started the series and all, but I think it now belongs to all of us in a way doesn’t it?

#7

Mel:

I agree that the eta cars make good, reliable, and fun race cars (you and I had one of the best races of my career at Road Atlanta driving our eta cars) but simplifying the Spec E30 program makes it easier for everyone.

And regarding the ownership of Spec E30, early on Mike and I agreed that auto racing series always fail when they are "governed by committee." Look at BMW CCA and how they try to cater to the ideas of all the racers. What a mess! Look at the old CART (now Champ Car) series and how it was "run" by the team owners. The bickering and complaining just about ran it into the ground…and that story isn’t over yet.

Now compare that to NASCAR, and all the way down to your local county speedway. NASCAR has one governing body and they call the shots. Sure, everyone doesn’t agree with every decision of the governing body but overall, the program is more efficient, is more stable, and works better because there is one authority.

Also, Mike and I agreed that we would have to agree on any change to our program to keep some kind of "checks and balances" in the program. And NASA is behind us 100% and is very pleased with our program.

So, Spec E30 does not belong to the drivers. It belongs to Mike and me, and NASA will support Mike and me.

Those who know me well know that I’m certainly no big ego - "I’m in charge here" kind of person and I certainly am not trying to protect any economic interest. Hell, I’ve lost money doing this.

But I have also gained a great deal…like great racing, great friends, and a great program.

If we try to implement every opinion and every idea, Spec E30 will fail just like virtually every other racing series that doesn’t have one central authority.

Up to this point, we’ve relied on everyone sticking to our program because that’s what is good for the group. If we have to register the name, etc. to protect Spec E30, we will. But we’re hoping everyone will stick with this successful program.

And what we offer to the amateur sports car racing community is unique.

But if a driver feels like he would be happier (because having more "say" in running the program is important to him) racing with a different group, I encourage him to try a different program. And if we tell NASA that a certain driver is not allowed in Spec E30, they will honor that decision.

Of course, we’re hoping that never happens.

If our drivers want to come to the track to enjoy some good, (mostly) clean, close, fair, and low-cost racing, we would love to have them. People will vote with their time and wallets and seeing the steady and healthy growth of Spec E30 shows that our program is working well.

Carter

#8

Point well taken, and well put. While I can’t say I agree with eliminating the SU class, I don’t really have a strong argument for keeping it around at this point.

On another note about having ownership fall on one or two individuals. I am going to ge interested on how it plays out. One thing that I think that SpecE30 has the opportunity to surpass other series is with rules stability. If you keep the rulebook stable and don’t keep changing it (clarifications are ok) like BMW CR, then I think that will go a long way towards keeping everyone happy. Afterall, racing (especially NASA) exhibits a certain amount of capatilism, where racers can vote with their pocketbooks.

#9

To answer your original question, I am building an '85 318 and have always planned to race in SpecE30 SU. However, until next year, I won’t have the funds to get out there. I would hate to see the class dissapear, as I’ve rebuilt the engine, done the spec suspension, stripped things out, and kept my eye on the rules. It’s a great track car and with a cage it’d be a SpecE30. But I’m certianly not expecting the class to hang around just for me. Especially if I wouldn’t have anyone to race against anyway. :frowning:

FWIW, my car uses less tires and brakes than a 325i and the engine is cheaper to maintain. I personally think the SU class is a great option for those who are on an even more strict budget. I have $4k in my car total, and that’s with the rebuilt engine, spec suspension, and race seats. Engines and parts specific to the 318i and 325e are usually cheap or free since they’re so unloved. And I exit turn 12 at RA at 100MPH just like everyone else. I just only get up to 105 by the end of the straight :laugh:

Just my thoughts.

Post edited by: ecpreston, at: 2006/03/22 12:11

#10

Channing,

Call me

864-254-3005

-Mel