Fix or Rebuild?

#1

So recently I bought a SpecE30. I’m still really excited about it, as I absolutely love the car and it’s a joy to drive.

That said, I drove the car for the first time a couple weekends ago. It was my first time at VIR, first time in the car, first drive in ~10 months or so, and it was wet off and on throughout the weekend. (Enough excuses?) Long story short, I spun the car and wound up backing into another car that had spun in the same spot seconds earlier. Messed the back end up big time.

It needs a back-end transplant, apparently. I talked to Maaco, who quoted me about $4k to $5k for the fix. I then spoke to a racecar oriented body shop who comes very highly recommended and who in fact did this exact fix for another E30 a few months back. His estimate was about $4k.

So now I’m at a crossroads. I can get it fixed or… I figure I can get a running E30 for under $2000 and have it caged for around $2k, give or take. I can swap all my stuff over from the existing car. I’ll then have spare doors, fenders, hood, engine, transmission, subframes, etc (basically everything I can pull off). And I can scrap the old shell to recoup a few bucks. It feels sacrilegious, though. And it would take a lot longer.

So what would YOU do?

#2

Do you have any photos? 4-5k to fix the rear seems awfully high.

#3

Not wreck the car.

Seriously, you didn’t need that comment.

Rebuild with a new shell. Keep lots of spare parts.

Call me, I’ve got lots of race shells that would be less expensive that a running car.
Likewise, you may want to cut the roof off of the old car and remove the cage.

RP
I’m in Atlanta.
800-755-1715

#4

Yep:

#5

[quote=“Patton” post=64656]Not wreck the car.

Seriously, you didn’t need that comment.

Rebuild with a new shell. Keep lots of spare parts.

Call me, I’ve got lots of race shells that would be less expensive that a running car.
Likewise, you may want to cut the roof off of the old car and remove the cage.

RP
I’m in Atlanta.
800-755-1715[/quote]

Ouch, burn! I’ll be sure to try the whole not-wrecking bit next time! :wink:

So that’s one vote for rebuild. That’s an interesting idea about the cage, too. I had assumed it would be a write-off if I went with a new shell, but now you’ve got me wondering if it could be salvaged. That may change the economics a bit.

It sure seems like replacing a rear end should be less costly than starting over, but it doesn’t seem to add up that way.

#6

That’s really a bummer man, I’m sorry.

I don’t know much about pulling a frame rail straight and welding on a rear quarter panel and rear panel so I can’t comment on that idea. But certainly MAACO will have no clue because they are oriented on DD quality work and the shortcuts that would be acceptable to us are outside of their worldview.

I think that you greatly overstimate the recovery costs here.

Getting a donor shell is a profitable venture because you end up selling a lot of parts. Find an e30 that looks nice enough that you can live w/o repainting it. Ideally it’s interior is thrashed. Talk to Robert about his shells. Investigate a cage swap.

Last Dec I got my ugly duckling prepped GTS2 car for $1500. Major additional expenses:
Paint and some bondo work $950
Harness and HANs strap $375
Decals $300

There’s some other crap that I had to buy but you get the idea. My point is that I suddenly had 1.8 e30’s and was therefore able to sell so much stuff that I pretty much broke even. So whether you ultimately decide to buy a rolling shell, a full on donor car, or buy someone’s unfinished track car project, as long as you are willing to do the work yourself, financially this is not a big deal.

#7

[quote=“Ranger” post=64659]That’s really a bummer man, I’m sorry.

I don’t know much about pulling a frame rail straight and welding on a rear quarter panel and rear panel so I can’t comment on that idea. But certainly MAACO will have no clue because they are oriented on DD quality work and the shortcuts that would be acceptable to us are outside of their worldview.

I think that you greatly overstimate the recovery costs here.

Getting a donor shell is a profitable venture because you end up selling a lot of parts. Find an e30 that looks nice enough that you can live w/o repainting it. Ideally it’s interior is thrashed. Talk to Robert about his shells. Investigate a cage swap.

Last Dec I got my ugly duckling prepped GTS2 car for $1500. Major additional expenses:
Paint and some bondo work $950
Harness and HANs strap $375
Decals $300

There’s some other crap that I had to buy but you get the idea. My point is that I suddenly had 1.8 e30’s and was therefore able to sell so much stuff that I pretty much broke even. So whether you ultimately decide to buy a rolling shell, a full on donor car, or buy someone’s unfinished track car project, as long as you are willing to do the work yourself, financially this is not a big deal.[/quote]

Hey Ranger, thanks for weighing in. You would certainly have some experience in the rebuild department.

I spoke to Maaco just figuring they would be the budget option, which they weren’t. The next guy I talked to is a race oriented body shop. They do lots of racecars, so definitely not a DD mindset, although he does do very good work so I hear.

I think you might be right when you say I’m overestimating the recovery costs. I see a 318 on craigslist for $600, and a McMahon caged 318 ITB project car for $1700. Posted back in Feb, so don’t know if it’s still available. (Any issues with using a 1984 318 as a donor shell?)

Didn’t Maaco do your paint? $950 seems steep for them, no? Granted, it looks really good.

I’m definitely willing to do what work I can myself. Which is most things short of welding, anything requiring a frame rack and anything involving paint.

#8

Dang! Sorry to hear about that.

I vote with Ranger, he just went through this and by reading along at home, it appeared to not be as pricey as first thought. Looks most everything will transfer. Even if the new donor isn’t caged, there are easy ways to put in good cages. I vote get a donor and get back on track!

#9

[quote=“juliancates” post=64660]
Hey Ranger, thanks for weighing in. You would certainly have some experience in the rebuild department.

I spoke to Maaco just figuring they would be the budget option, which they weren’t. The next guy I talked to is a race oriented body shop. They do lots of racecars, so definitely not a DD mindset, although he does do very good work so I hear.

I think you might be right when you say I’m overestimating the recovery costs. I see a 318 on craigslist for $600, and a McMahon caged 318 ITB project car for $1700. Posted back in Feb, so don’t know if it’s still available. (Any issues with using a 1984 318 as a donor shell?)

Didn’t Maaco do your paint? $950 seems steep for them, no? Granted, it looks really good.

I’m definitely willing to do what work I can myself. Which is most things short of welding, anything requiring a frame rack and anything involving paint.[/quote]
Re. MAACO cost. Their standard paint job would have been <$500. I had them to a bit of bondo work, my red stripe, and also I’d used too aggressive of a grit of sandpaper when I’d attacked all of the old yellow paint on the car so they had to do additional sanding and use a “high-build” primer. I didn’t trust the yellow paint to stay on so I didn’t want them to paint over it.

I’m no expert on early e30’s nor 318s. Certainly tranny, driveshaft and diff would have to go. You’d want to install ABS which would be a pita, and I think the front struts would be wrong. Did early 318’s have rear disk brakes or drum?

The ITB car won’t have ABS because the SCCA doesn’t allow it. That’s not a deal killer tho.

I’ve a line on several e30’s down Savannah way, but there’s sure to be deals up near you.

#10

I assumed if I went this route I would be swapping everything over. Subframes, struts, rear suspension, brakes, etc. I hadn’t thought about ABS, though, and will have to research what’s involved there. I obviously have all the required parts on the current car, just not sure what would be involved in swapping it over.

#11

I’m sure a skilled tech like Baader could retrofit ABS, but I wouldn’t try it without some expert guidance.

The entire chassis harness changed significantly in 1986 when ABS and the round ECU connector came along. An adapter for the engine/body connector is straightforward (I have one myself from a prior track rat), but if you want working ABS and are going it alone, I see much pain.

If you can find an 86+ plus, you’ll save much work/aggravation, as virtually everything else is a drop-in replacement.

#12

Every e30 I have worked on had factory ABS except one. If you will go the trouble to learn to use the brakes correctly, you will out brake anyone using ABS. As long as your donor car has the same firewall connector as the wrecked car, switching over is a plug and play proposition. Took me 26 days to build my current car and I was working 2-3 days a week during the process.

If you know someone at a local junk yard, try to score a chassis there. Mine actually gave me a chassis before they stripped it so they got all the parts removed for free and got my old chassis to crush…win-win.(I was lucky enough to get a straight car, however, most any little bump will total an e30)

Good luck with the build. Chuck

#13

walter houston in greenville said he has the shell from their lemons car, might be a good starting point as it’s already caged

#14

[quote=“ctbimmer” post=64664]
If you can find an 86+ plus, you’ll save much work/aggravation, as virtually everything else is a drop-in replacement.[/quote]+1. When you are struggling to upgrade the 84-85 you will not recall fondly the money or time you saved by buying the early model because it was the first one that popped up on radar. 86’s and '87’s are a dime a dozen. Start dismantling your car and hit www.SearchTempest.com

#15

Find a buddy with a lift.

Two people, two days and the running gear swap is complete.

Ask me how I know. Better yet, ask Damion, Fred, Gress, Taylor, Childress, etc…

I’ve got a buddy down here that may be willing to sell a caged/with running gear car inexpensively. I’ll call him.

RP

#16

What would I do? IF the rest of the car is good/solid/decent AND if the true comparative costs are going to be “somewhat” close AND if I would be back on track sooner AND it involved less work on my part THEN I would fix it.

#17

Don’t let ABS scare you; I was able to install a system from scratch in my car and you have all the parts you’ll need from the wrecked car. You would need to swap over your current harness along with front and rear hubs. Finding a car with ABS would however be much easier…

#18

It’s threads like this that serve to remind us why SpecE30 is the best class in racing.

#19

I’m having a hard time imagining that re-clipping the rear end is more expensive than transferring everything over to a new tub - even if you find one with a decent cage. If your rear suspension pickup points are intact and the cage downtubes weren’t impacted, I gotta think a rear-end-ectomy is the way to go. I have that free 1984 318 chassis just itching to donate its arse end to the cause.

#20

I’m with you on that, Steve. It doesn’t make sense that starting from scratch should be more cost effective. I’m going to see if I can dive in deeper with the body guy to understand where his estimate is coming from. I’ll see if it changes if I were to bring both the crashed car and the donor car to him.

And, uh, wow, way to drop the F-bomb. I’ll have to talk to you about that arse end! :slight_smile: