Fire Suppression System

#1

I am looking for a Fire Suppression System for the build. Anyone have any suggestions like or dislikes one system over another? Hopefully none of you have ever had to test the system.

#2

I recommend buying an AFFF system that you can refill/recharge yourself. I had a SPA system that got triggered during a pit-stop battery change. The fire bottle was in the trunk close to the battery… Anyway, that system has to be shipped back to a dealer to be recharged. And you are done for the weekend if you accidentally trigger it.

Since the ballast rules have been relaxed there is less benefit to buying a heavy fire bottle but mounting location is free so it still has the benefit of helping corner weights.

I have a 3 nozzle system - in the back seat, on the fuel rail and at the driver footwell.

Steve D.

#3

Allow me to add my two cents on this subject. In addition to what Steve stated above, having a nozzle aimed at the engine compartment/fuel lines is a good idea. Anyone with a fuel cell in the trunk may want to consider adding a nozzle there also.

#4

Gasman wrote:

Agreed. Maybe I am using the wrong term when I refer to the fuel rail. But mine is aimed at the injector side of the intake manifold.

Steve D.

#5

Actually, I think your terminology was correct.

#6

Is the SPA 2.25 liter AFFF system large enough?
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=2436

#7

Coloradomark wrote:

[quote]Is the SPA 2.25 liter AFFF system large enough?
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=2436[/quote]

Yes it’s big enough. Works for BMWCCA too. The PO but an E.S.S. AFFF system into my car.

#8

I was looking at this one,
http://www.apexperformance.net/CartGenie/prod-56.htm

ESS 2.3l system , Any comments

It is only 10 dollars extra for it to be SFI certified (it comes charged and sealed).
Can you self recharge an SFI system? Do any of the major groups require SFI? I thought I read in one the CCRs, GCRs, or rule books that a SFI system would be required in 2009 or 2010

PS: Apex gives a NASA discount too.

#9

Just answered my own question. As of 1/1/09 the SCCA does require your Fire System to be SFI certified.

#10

Coloradomark wrote:

[quote]Is the SPA 2.25 liter AFFF system large enough?
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=2436[/quote]
Yes, though bigger is better. Bimmerworld has the SPA 4L steel tank version for $249, a bit less than the 2.5L from Pegasus. The 4L system includes 6 nozzles and two pull cables. That allows for three nozzles in the cabin and three in the engine bay. Dual pull handles allow for one to be mounted in reach of the driver and the other mounted wheel corner workers have fast access.

#11

jlevie wrote:

[quote]Coloradomark wrote:

[quote]Is the SPA 2.25 liter AFFF system large enough?
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=2436[/quote]
Yes, though bigger is better. Bimmerworld has the SPA 4L steel tank version for $249, a bit less than the 2.5L from Pegasus. The 4L system includes 6 nozzles and two pull cables. That allows for three nozzles in the cabin and three in the engine bay. Dual pull handles allow for one to be mounted in reach of the driver and the other mounted wheel corner workers have fast access.[/quote]

+1 I have this system sitting in a box ready to go in. The 6 nozzles, and two pull handles is what sold me. It also comes with flex tubing, and quick connects. I believe it is $294 not $249.

I would mount 1 handle on the passenger side windshield trim, and the other somewhere on the drivers side A pillar so both you and a corner worker could easily reach it. This way if your up against the wall, the corner workers will have access on both sides.

#12

87isMan wrote:

[quote]+1 I have this system sitting in a box ready to go in. The 6 nozzles, and two pull handles is what sold me. It also comes with flex tubing, and quick connects. I believe it is $294 not $249.

I would mount 1 handle on the passenger side windshield trim, and the other somewhere on the drivers side A pillar so both you and a corner worker could easily reach it. This way if your up against the wall, the corner workers will have access on both sides.[/quote]
You are correct it is $294, not $249. Apparently I was having a dyslectic moment… Still it beats the fool out of a 2.3-2.5L system.

#13

So, which systems can be re-charged by the owner? Which meet different group requirements? Ranger, I figure you have all this on an Excell Spreadsheet already and your updating daily, can you share please?

Jeff

#14

jhall1957 wrote:

[quote]So, which systems can be re-charged by the owner? Which meet different group requirements? Ranger, I figure you have all this on an Excell Spreadsheet already and your updating daily, can you share please?

Jeff[/quote]

I don’t know much about this fire suppression (FS) business or about SCCA regs. But here’s what I think is correct:

  1. Must have fire suppression for BMWCCA. Later edit: This turned out to be not necessarily true. We are required to meet our own class regs, and no more.

  2. As far as I know all commercial 2 1/3 liter or larger FS systems are acceptable for NASA and BMWCCA. I like Jim’s idea of a big tank with 2 pull handles.

  3. There’s number of different types of suppression stuff, AFFF (a type of foam that the Navy developed) and Halon, for example. A charm of AFFF is that it is user refillable for about $70.

  4. A FS system has a different mission then a fire extinguisher. The purpose of a FS is to suppress a fire for a couple seconds so the driver can get his ass out of the burning car. Obviously, the mission of a fire extinguisher is to put a fire out, even if a small fire extinguisher is only good for a couple seconds.

In addition to the FS system, I have a small fire extinguisher in my trunk. My thought is that if something catches fire on the track one day, my extinguisher in the trunk might be the difference between me saving my car and it burning to the ground. Just because the corner worker is a hard charger, doesn’t mean she can get her 40lb fire extinguisher 250yds to me in 60secs.

#15

You are correct in that a Halon system’s purpose, in this application, is just to knock back the fire and allow the driver to escape. In a closed area Halon will extinguish a fire by depriving it of oxygen. But in this application the Halon will quickly disperse and allow the fire to re-flash. AFFF on the other hand is a fire extinguishing system. The foam will coat and cool burning fuel or oil, thus depriving the combustibles of oxygen and reducing the rate of vaporization. Properly sized and administered AFFF does more than just giving the driver time to escape in most racing fire situations. It won’t help if your gas tank ruptures, but that’s a low probability event.

Compared to Halon, a recharge of an AFFF system is dirt cheap. Clean up after deploying AFFF is simply a matter of washing it off with water. And since it is non-corrosive, it won’t damage electrical components. The lack of damage, ease of cleanup, and low cost to recharge mean that as a driver I would not hesitate to fire an AFFF system if there was a suggestion of a fire. If I had a Halon system I might tend to wait to see if firing the system was really necessary, just due to the cost of a recharge.

I rather like Greg’s idea of mounting the second handle of the 4L Spa system on the driver’s A pillar. I have my second handle mounted next to shift lever, figuring that I could find it by feel if it came to that. But Greg’s idea makes more sense. Since I’m less worried about the car than I am about personal safety, I only have two nozzles in the engine bay. With 4L of foam being dispensed that should result in a greater volume of foam in the cabin area, probably enough to turn the cabin into a foam swimming pool.

#16

Thanks for the info guys. Sounds like a BIG (4L) AFFF is the ticket. Tom and I both need to make this addition!

#17

There was a letter in the scca magazine last month reminding folks in colder climates to be careful with water-based fire systems if the car is not stored in a heated garage. Food for thought.

Steve D.

#18

Thanks for the 4L system info. Seems like a good deal.

I like the idea of “turn the cabin into a foam swimming pool”.

I have an email in to my local SCCA tech to get some clarification. An IT car is not required to have a Fire suppression system, just an extinguisher will do, But the cars that are required to have a Suppression system are required for that system to be SFI certified. There is no info about having a system in an IT car.

#19

87isMan wrote:

[quote]

+1 I have this system sitting in a box ready to go in. The 6 nozzles, and two pull handles is what sold me. It also comes with flex tubing, and quick connects. I believe it is $294 not $249.

I would mount 1 handle on the passenger side windshield trim, and the other somewhere on the drivers side A pillar so both you and a corner worker could easily reach it. This way if your up against the wall, the corner workers will have access on both sides.[/quote]

I just ordered this system - what are your thoughts on where you are going to mount it? I run with a passenger seat because I need the weight, I instruct and my son uses my car and I like to be able to ride with him (and vice versa). Putting it behind the seats seems like a good place, except access would be difficult when the seats are in. Mounting it in the trunk shifts the weight back, gives good acccess, but the lines would have to travel further. Where are you putting yours?

#20

Coloradomark wrote:

[quote]87isMan wrote:

[quote]

+1 I have this system sitting in a box ready to go in. The 6 nozzles, and two pull handles is what sold me. It also comes with flex tubing, and quick connects. I believe it is $294 not $249.

I would mount 1 handle on the passenger side windshield trim, and the other somewhere on the drivers side A pillar so both you and a corner worker could easily reach it. This way if your up against the wall, the corner workers will have access on both sides.[/quote]

I just ordered this system - what are your thoughts on where you are going to mount it? I run with a passenger seat because I need the weight, I instruct and my son uses my car and I like to be able to ride with him (and vice versa). Putting it behind the seats seems like a good place, except access would be difficult when the seats are in. Mounting it in the trunk shifts the weight back, gives good acccess, but the lines would have to travel further. Where are you putting yours?[/quote]

I haven’t thought about where I will mount it yet. My car is undergoing surgery right now, and i have been spending my time with a sawsall, and grinder don’t ask.

I think mounted where the backseat used to be is going to be the best option. Maybe Jim can chime in and let us know where he mounted his.