Final list of questions to complete SE30 build

#1

I spent an entire day on the car today, here is the remaining list of questions, in purely random order:

  1. There is a little clip on the back brakes, I have no idea what it does. It snaps on the caliper itself. Is this clip necessary or is it just some form of an anti-rattle clip?

  2. On the front brakes, only the inside pad seems to have the little locationg springs that are visible if you look down in between the caliper. Is this normal?

  3. It looks like the clutch is supposed to have a little adjustable stopper that screws into a boss on the firewall. Mine has no stopper. Does everyone else have a stopper?

  4. What weight of oil seems to be predominately run in these cars? I won’t even open the floodgate of argument to ask what brand…

  5. With a stock pan, should I run an extra quart of oil?

  6. At the risk of starting an argument similar to the oil question, who makes the best, most reasonably priced pad for these cars? I use a lot of Carbotech stuff, so if that works on these cars fairly well, what compound? If something else, then what, and where to get it.

  7. The plastic coolant fill tank I got at a junkyard. It doesn’t look great. Have these ever been known to leak or burst?

  8. My car is a two door. Can I remove the rear quarter glass?

  9. Last week the tach worked. This week, after we tied up the wiring under the dash, it no longer works. Any obvious boneheaded thing we did, or do I just look for something that came unplugged?

  10. What RPM do you shift these at?

  11. What fluid is in the gearbox and what should I put in it?

  12. What weight oil is in the rear end?

  13. What kind of power should these cars make at the tires?

  14. What cold PSI should I baseline the car at with 3/32 RA-1’s?

I know I had more questions, but that is all I can think of for now. All answers would be greatly appreciated.

#2

BigKeyserSoze wrote:

[quote]I spent an entire day on the car today, here is the remaining list of questions, in purely random order:

  1. There is a little clip on the back brakes, I have no idea what it does. It snaps on the caliper itself. Is this clip necessary or is it just some form of an anti-rattle clip?

  2. On the front brakes, only the inside pad seems to have the little locationg springs that are visible if you look down in between the caliper. Is this normal?

  3. It looks like the clutch is supposed to have a little adjustable stopper that screws into a boss on the firewall. Mine has no stopper. Does everyone else have a stopper?

  4. What weight of oil seems to be predominately run in these cars? I won’t even open the floodgate of argument to ask what brand…

  5. With a stock pan, should I run an extra quart of oil?

  6. At the risk of starting an argument similar to the oil question, who makes the best, most reasonably priced pad for these cars? I use a lot of Carbotech stuff, so if that works on these cars fairly well, what compound? If something else, then what, and where to get it.

  7. The plastic coolant fill tank I got at a junkyard. It doesn’t look great. Have these ever been known to leak or burst?

  8. My car is a two door. Can I remove the rear quarter glass?

  9. Last week the tach worked. This week, after we tied up the wiring under the dash, it no longer works. Any obvious boneheaded thing we did, or do I just look for something that came unplugged?

  10. What RPM do you shift these at?

  11. What fluid is in the gearbox and what should I put in it?

  12. What weight oil is in the rear end?

  13. What kind of power should these cars make at the tires?

  14. What cold PSI should I baseline the car at with 3/32 RA-1’s?

I know I had more questions, but that is all I can think of for now. All answers would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]

  1. The anti-rattle clip does more then just prevent rattling. W/o it your caliper will tend to rotate and pad wear will get goofed. This will make your brakes feel very soft.

  2. If you mean the little circular springs, I remove them before putting the pads on. Pads go on easier w/o them. Not all do this tho.

  3. Stopper. Put in a bolt, adjust to suit.

  4. Most common is 15W50 or 20W50. My website has a lot of info re. oil.

  5. IMO the minimum configuration is a crankscraper and run a qt high. The minimum configuration.

  6. Hawk HT10’s, and PFC 01 or 06 are probably the most common pads. PFC are compression molded and therefore are less prone (vs. HT10) to crumble as wear gets to 50%. The 06 is an endurance compound with better wear and less bite. Can get them from BimmerWorld.

  7. IMO the caps are more troublesome then the bottles. I’ve not heard of problems with the bottles.

  8. No.

  9. Unplugged.

  10. I shift at 6k because I don’t like to hit rev limiter which is at 64? IIRC, power starts falling off at 6k or 6200.

  11. I have AMSOIL Syncromesh manual tranny fluid. There’s other choices.

  12. 75W90 gear oil.

  13. Dynojet Standard Adjustment 150hp is average, 155 is pretty damned good.

  14. Could try…
    28LF 29RF
    30LR 31RR
    I think folks are aiming for 38-40psi hot.

#3

Lots of stuff here. I will insert my answers after the questions for the ones I can.

  1. There is a little clip on the back brakes, I have no idea what it does. It snaps on the caliper itself. Is this clip necessary or is it just some form of an anti-rattle clip?

It probably does help rattle and keep the caliper aginst the carrier. I and everyone I know just leave it in place.

  1. On the front brakes, only the inside pad seems to have the little locationg springs that are visible if you look down in between the caliper. Is this normal?

Most race pads will not have the locating spring. If there is one, it goes into the piston.

  1. It looks like the clutch is supposed to have a little adjustable stopper that screws into a boss on the firewall. Mine has no stopper. Does everyone else have a stopper?

You can buy or make an adjustable clutch stop. A bolt with a lock nut and maybe a rubber cap over the head. Adjust so the clutch stops moving just after the engine disengages.

  1. What weight of oil seems to be predominately run in these cars? I won’t even open the floodgate of argument to ask what brand…

This is all over the place. Ranger has a long post on here somewhere about it. I am using Mobil 1 15W50 but may go lighter.

  1. With a stock pan, should I run an extra quart of oil?

I have a crank scraper and don’t run any extra oil. It may be OK.

  1. At the risk of starting an argument similar to the oil question, who makes the best, most reasonably priced pad for these cars? I use a lot of Carbotech stuff, so if that works on these cars fairly well, what compound? If something else, then what, and where to get it.

Most run what they think is the most competative. Hawk HT-10 or DTC 60 are popular as are PFC-01’s. Again, Ranger has some info on the compounds.

  1. The plastic coolant fill tank I got at a junkyard. It doesn’t look great. Have these ever been known to leak or burst?

I don’t know of it but if it is cracked a lot and very hard from age, I may be leary.

  1. My car is a two door. Can I remove the rear quarter glass?

Sure, just make sure it is back in place when you go on track.

  1. Last week the tach worked. This week, after we tied up the wiring under the dash, it no longer works. Any obvious boneheaded thing we did, or do I just look for something that came unplugged?

I have taped into my tach input wire for my data aquisition, My tack will not work if it is not on now for some reason. If you have not done that then it may just be a short or loose conection.

  1. What RPM do you shift these at?

Just before the rev limiter. 6200??

  1. What fluid is in the gearbox and what should I put in it?

All over the board. There is a recent treand on this.

  1. What weight oil is in the rear end?

Don’t remember for sure 75W90 Redline maybe

  1. What kind of power should these cars make at the tires?

150ish

  1. What cold PSI should I baseline the car at with 3/32 RA-1’s?

High 20’s.

I know I had more questions, but that is all I can think of for now. All answers would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]

Good luck,

Michael

#4

ilateapex wrote:

:laugh:

#5

BigKeyserSoze wrote:

I haven’t had any issues in 2 years running at full with a crank scraper.

Except for the 4-5 shift, just shy of redline. Can’t tell you a specific number because it seems like there is always a little difference between the DME redline and the indicated engine speed.

The 4-5 shift doesn’t always have to be at redline in 4th because those gears are closer together and redline in 4th = about 5k rpm in 5th. There’s plenty of tq/hp curve below that RPM.

PS - On your first couple standing starts, if you are like me you will do the 1-2 shift at about 6700. That’s not the fastest way, though.:blush:

#6

  1. You can make an adjustable clutch stop. I made mine using a bolt, a nut, and a large washer. I used JB Weld to attach the washer to the bolt head. I had the rubber pad off the original clutch stop, which I put over the washer as a cushion. Snug the nut against the bracket on the floor to lock it down once you set the right height.

  2. Check the fuses. There are 2 for the tach. My tach stopped working recently. After pulling the cluster and messing around with it, I read the Bentley manual and found a blown fuse. Wish I had looked there first.

#7

I have some questions to add.

  1. before my 87 is turned into a monster the speed was limited to 124mph or exactly 200k even though my owners manual said it has a top speed of 133 and was not limited. At 124 it was like hitting the rev limiter but was only at 5200rpm. I have heard that some are limited and some are not. Is this a problem for some spec e30s and how do you fix it.

  2. My speedometer in my 89i is intermittent. How do I test the sensor in the diff with a multimeter?

  3. What air filter does everyone use?

#8

  1. Some ECUs are speed-limited. I was testing a batch at the dyno last year, and tried a couple of either 524 or 525 (can’t recall which) and for giggles I had the dyno guy shift into 5th and see what happened. Both ECU’s of the same type wound to 6500 in lower gears and the power was basically the same as the more popular 173 and the like, but they did have a soft cutout at 130mph. As a practical matter I doubt there’s a racetrack in the US where a SpecE30 can get to that speed so the ECU is probably not a problem for us.

  2. The speedo cutout is likely not the speed sensor (nice thought though); it’s probably a bad board in the cluster. I’m sure one of the real experts on here will tell you how to fix it but I just go to the junkyard and pay the man for a new cluster.

  3. Factory paper (Mann or equivalent) is a safe choice.

#9

  1. Answered

  2. On the front brakes, only the inside pad seems to have the little locating springs that are visible if you look down in between the caliper. Is this normal?

Ans: Yeah some brands have the “prongs” for the fronts, they are more common in the rear… In my experience they were included to make installation a snap.

  1. Answered

  2. 20W50 Royal Purple, Mobile 1 or Castrol GTX are all excellent choices. Lighter oil will result in tapping from the valves, but possibly so will getting it too hot or too low.

  3. With a stock pan, should I run an extra quart of oil?

Ans: #1 you MUST run a crank scraper, to be honest, running a quart too much is equally important, but if you’re running a track with high speed left handed sweepers, if you don’t run one, be prepared to “do a Ranger” when it comes to motors. (Sorry Ranger - but it’s been a good reference point for a while now)

  1. At the risk of starting an argument similar to the oil question, who makes the best, most reasonably priced pad for these cars? I use a lot of Carbotech stuff, so if that works on these cars fairly well, what compound? If something else, then what, and where to get it.

Ans: Hawk Blue, HT10, PFC 97 (IIRC), and Porterfield R4’s are all excellent. - Personal preferences of course. There is possibly money for you with the Hawk’s - NASA is doing the Hawk thing again in '10.

  1. Ranger got this right

  2. Ranger got this right

  3. dunno

  4. What RPM do you shift these at?

Ans: There is no reason at all other than pointlessness to go beyond 6000 to be honest… The restriction of the intake system does not really allow for more power beyond the 5900/6000 rpm limit. 6200 is just fine, I’m just focusing on the minutia.

  1. Answered

  2. RedLine Shock Proof according to “the man”… Rob In-Hout (RIDS) San Fernando (LA)

  3. Glad you guys knew.

  4. 38/40 is high IMO, but only time and testing will tell. 38 was a sweet spot for the lame R888, IIRC, 34 or a little less was a good goal for the RA1.

#10

How hard is it to drop the pan and install the scraper? I will do a search to see what is involved, but it sounds like a job that sucks.

-Scott

#11

ctbimmer wrote:

[quote]1. Some ECUs are speed-limited. I was testing a batch at the dyno last year, and tried a couple of either 524 or 525 (can’t recall which) and for giggles I had the dyno guy shift into 5th and see what happened. Both ECU’s of the same type wound to 6500 in lower gears and the power was basically the same as the more popular 173 and the like, but they did have a soft cutout at 130mph. As a practical matter I doubt there’s a racetrack in the US where a SpecE30 can get to that speed so the ECU is probably not a problem for us.
[/quote]

my home track is Road America and I think i might reach those speeds there. I did get a mini cooper non S close to 120 at a midwest f-body driving school there last October.

#12

ctbimmer wrote:

[quote] As a practical matter I doubt there’s a racetrack in the US where a SpecE30 can get to that speed so the ECU is probably not a problem for us.
[/quote]

I was running a 525 last year and would hit the speed limiter on the back straight at Road Atlanta about 100-150 feet before the brake zone. Would hit at around 125 mph I think. Hit it a few other times at other tracks an instant before braking at the end of a straight. Long story short, I’d just get a 173 and not worry about it.

#13

kgobey wrote:

[quote]5. With a stock pan, should I run an extra quart of oil?

Ans: #1 you MUST run a crank scraper, to be honest, running a quart too much is equally important…[/quote]
The second part of that advice is far from universally accepted as fact by those currently running a SE30 with a crank scraper.

One school of thought says the larger oil volume will keep the oil pump pickup submerged at greater g loads.

The other school of thought says the over-full condition may lead to frothing that prevents the pump from sucking liquid oil and may exascerbate the oil pressure dips.

My one data point is that I have run 2 full seasons with a crank scraper and oil at full and have never had an oil pressure problem. YMMV, IMHO, etc.

#14

Steve D wrote:

[quote]
My one data point is that I have run 2 full seasons with a crank scraper and oil at full and have never had an oil pressure problem. YMMV, IMHO, etc.[/quote]

Same here…

#15

As a community we’re beyond guessing on this. We have two sets of data (1 being mine) that conclusively show that oil pumps suck air in hard turns. Both sets of data were run with a scraper and a quart high. Jon Allen’s data showed pressure dropping to 0, my data showed pressure dropping to high 20’s.

I don’t buy the frothing arguement. The inside of the block is a crazy frenetic oil hurricane. The last thing you need to worry about is a still oil volume in the pan so deep that the crank can hit it. An extra quart gives you what, a 1/4" more oil depth? The concern should be keeping an inch of oil in the pan under hard cornering, not unexpectadly accumulating 8" of oil in the pan and having the crank hit it.

You are all my friends. I’m happy that your bearings, engines, tow vehicles, wives, children, and mistresses, are all happy. But the unescapeable truth is that when oil pressure is lost, bearings lose material. My favorite way to learn is from other people’s problems. I’ve provided lots of learning opportunities in the last 18months.

#16

I have an entire race’s worth of data (and probably more) that show no significant oil pressure drops running just the scraper and a touch over 5 qts.

Here is a link -

http://dtomracing.com/photos/Stack%20All%20Channels.jpg

It will dip and drop with engine speed which is normal.

#17

Ranger wrote:

All due respect, 2 data points do not make for a statistically significant sample size. With you, Jonny, Pshrink and me voting, it’s a 2 to 2 tie.

I don’t dispute for a minute that you have had oil pressure drops with catastrophic consequences. But the disease and cure are FAR from universally accepted as fact.

Facts:
Some people have OP problems when running:

  • quart high & scraper
  • quart high
  • scraper
  • neither

Some people don’t have OP problems when running:

  • quart high & scraper
  • quart high
  • scraper
  • neither

Some shop-built motors have gone kaboom. Some driveway-built motors have gone kaboom. Some shop-built motors are still fine. Some driveway-built motors are still fine.

Until you get a statistically significant sampling of SpecE30 data for all the above conditions, the hunch remains a hunch.

Sounds like you need to run 4 quarts high. :wink:

True dat.

I don’t know what the oil maelstrom inside the crankcase looks like. I can’t say that foaming occurs at one quart high. But likewise you can’t say it doesn’t. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to leave that possible explanation out there.

#18

I run full oil (not over) and a crank scraper. The only data I have is from Mid-Ohio. I never get below 30psig on oil pressure. It typically dips to 30 with downshift rev matching. I do notice more spikes to 30 on quick transition left hand 1+ G turns.

Michael

#19

Steve D wrote:

[quote]Ranger wrote:

All due respect, 2 data points do not make for a statistically significant sample size. With you, Jonny, Pshrink and me voting, it’s a 2 to 2 tie.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Not a tie. The guys with OP recorded on data loggers say that OP drops in long hard left turns. The guys that don’t have OP data say their bearings still live. As we use to say in HS debate, there is no clash there. We are saying different things.

Sure, a couple isolated goofs recording OP data isn’t conclusive. But considered another way, ALL the guys recording OP’s see evidence of the problem. And that ought to be enough to cause general concern.

#20

IndyJim wrote:

[quote]I have an entire race’s worth of data (and probably more) that show no significant oil pressure drops running just the scraper and a touch over 5 qts.

Here is a link -

http://dtomracing.com/photos/Stack%20All%20Channels.jpg

It will dip and drop with engine speed which is normal.[/quote]

That’s good data, and clearly contradicts the data that Jon and I collected. WTG Jim. This tells us that it’s less of a slam dunk then I thought and that we need to collect more data from other folks. If some of us are losing pressure on turns and other’s not, we should be able to figure out the reason.

Jim, where are all these sensors installed and how did you calibrate them all. Just calibrating my one OP sensor was enough of a pita that it took a half dozen repetitions to get it right. How on earth did you set up a sensor to record brake line pressure?