Engine swap <yawn> and data logger hp


#1

After having studied the Traqmate data from RA and CMP I decided that New #6 was 10-15hp low. Surprisingly, the butt dyno thought it was nicely strong. I was so used to engine management problems sucking the life out of the engine that I’d been pleased at how strong the car felt at CMP and RA. It was only after studying the data that I realized that altho it was strong compared to 2011, it was a dog compared to earlier years.

It was surprisingly difficult to get believable hp data from Traqmate. Each time I thought that I’d set up a rigorous comparison, I’d come up with a variable that I’d not accounted for and therefore couldn’t trust the result.

Dataloggers want to present data by location, but hp comparison requires that the cars are at the same speed and degree of elevation change. There was no controlling for wind, but I think I controlled for drafting reasonably enough. If you control for a car’s location they are inevitably at different speeds so the hp comparison doesn’t work. If you control for a car’s speed they are inevitably at a different location so you need a long flat stretch so that neither car is changing elevation. Preferably a long flat stretch after a slow turn because slow turn exit speeds vary less than fast turn exit speeds, especially when you have different drivers in the comparison. Also, by far the best place to get a good hp curve is 4th gear, especially high rpm 4th gear.

I spent easily 4hrs setting up different comparisons. Altho none of them were perfect, they all did show the same thing…10-15hp low. The info was conclusive enough that I decided to blow off the expense and hassle of getting some dyno time to confirm it.

Note that the engine that came with New #6 had compression tests that varied between 136-140hp. That’s darn little variance between cylinders.

I’m not racing in July so potentially I could do this after RA and take all the time I wanted for little projects a long the way. Or I could hustle and do it now.

I’m kinda a “now” guy.

I ordered a Goetz HG last night because all I have on hand is a V-R. I suspect it won’t arrive in time tho so I might be installing the V-R HG. I want the head on the engine before it and the tranny go in because that gives me an easy front anchor point for the lift. Maybe I’ll do a temp install of a head just to give me an anchor point. We’ll see.

I’m pulling engine and tranny out as a unit since it’s too hard to get the two to mate up in place w/o a helper. That means I need serious anchor points for the lift.

Last night I did everything short of pulling the motor. I’m trying to do it with the car on the scissor lift. Altho the lift makes it difficult to get under the center 2/3rds of the car, by putting the car well forward on the lift I might have enough room to get the engine and tranny out. The limiting fact might be getting the drive shaft to droop enough that I can separate it from the tranny.

Like every task the list seems longer in execution than it did in planning. Last night I
Drained coolant, oil and pulled the radiator
Disconnected all the electricals
Dropped the downtube off of the exhaust manifolds
Removed the clutch slave and separated shift linkage
Removed throttle body
Removed motor and tranny mounts
Dropped the center bearing
Unfastened the bolts to the guibo.

While cleaning up afterwards I noticed that I’d banged up a knee a bit. The bed is white. Entirely white. Every bit of linen and banky it’s ever seen is white. It’d be my ass if I bled all over it. So I wrapped some papertowels around my knee and then wrapped it in masking tape. Which is where much of my leg hair remains.


#2

Good thinking on the paper towel/tape wrap!


#3

[quote=“Ranger” post=66461]
I’m not racing in July so potentially I could do this after RA and take all the time I wanted for little projects a long the way. [/quote]
You should go to VIR in July. I’m hoping we can round up a decent SE posse and go see how the other region rolls.

I can’t do Charlotte due to work so VIR is my July fix.


#4

[quote=“ctbimmer” post=66490][quote=“Ranger” post=66461]
I’m not racing in July so potentially I could do this after RA and take all the time I wanted for little projects a long the way. [/quote]
You should go to VIR in July. I’m hoping we can round up a decent SE posse and go see how the other region rolls.

I can’t do Charlotte due to work so VIR is my July fix.[/quote]

I was all hot to do VIR in July, pun intended of course, but I decided to continue paying off credit card debts. I racked up a crazy amount of debt in the early days tracking first the Porsche and then the SpecE30 60days/yr.

Here’s my Goetz HG coming to me from a Pelican Parts warehouse outside of Los Angeles. I ordered it on the afternoon of the 7th.
Jun 8, 2012 7:19 AM…On FedEx vehicle for delivery…SAVANNAH, GA
Jun 8, 2012 7:15 AM… At local FedEx facility… SAVANNAH, GA
Jun 8, 2012 6:45 AM… At destination sort facility… SAVANNAH, GA
Jun 8, 2012 4:28 AM … Departed FedEx location… MEMPHIS, TN
Jun 8, 2012 1:13 AM… Arrived at FedEx location … MEMPHIS, TN
Jun 7, 2012 5:30 PM… Left FedEx origin facility… GARDENA, CA
Jun 7, 2012 3:58 PM… Picked up… GARDENA, CA
Jun 7, 2012 4:17 PM… Shipment information sent to FedEx

This is way cool. I don’t ship stuff overnight very often. Check this out. It took FedEx 90min from pickup at customer site to the box to leaving their Gardena collection point. That included getting properly sorted and routed along with a bezillion other odd shaped parcels. ~5hrs later, controlling for time zones, it was in Memphis their central hub along with umpteen bezillion other parcels. 34min after that parcel hit the ground in Savannah it was on a truck headed for my house, where the dog waits to sign for it.

There are very few things that private enterprise can’t figure out how to do vastly more efficiently than government. Unleash the imagination and determination of the entrepreneur.

I didn’t get much done last night. I hadn’t hit the rack before 01 in days and I thought I’d play a little catch up.


#5

[quote=“ctbimmer” post=66490][quote=“Ranger” post=66461]
I’m not racing in July so potentially I could do this after RA and take all the time I wanted for little projects a long the way. [/quote]
You should go to VIR in July. I’m hoping we can round up a decent SE posse and go see how the other region rolls.

I can’t do Charlotte due to work so VIR is my July fix.[/quote]

VIR in July still sounds like a really good idea. Chuck, anybody else from SE going? {Scott, sorry about hijacking the thread)


#6

Kelly was going to join me until he decided to prove his Evel Knievel cred last week, but I think it would be fun if we got up some guys. I was going to wait until after RA next week to start pitching it on SE30.com.

The last couple years a few of their guys have come to the Toy Race, at least partially since it extends their season, so would be nice to return the favor.


#7

Engine’s out. I’m kinda being a slug so it’s slow going. I managed to screw up and separate the drive shaft, but a quick check at e30tech indicates that it’s not the crisis I feared.

2 Goetz HG’s showed up at my door today.


#8

Look what I found in New#6. See how much material has been removed from the face of the flywheel on the right? Recall that in a prior life it was a GTS2 car so a lightened flywheel was kosher. Not so much for my last race at CMP tho.


#9

That will skew your data logger numbers!!

While the head is off, go to NAPA and get some 400 grit valve grinding compound and a suction cup tool. Disassemble the head and hand lap the valves to the seats. You should see a narrow solid silver ring around the seat and the valve. Reassemble, and you have a freshened head!! Chuck


#10

[quote=“Fred42” post=66508]

VIR in July still sounds like a really good idea. Chuck, anybody else from SE going? {Scott, sorry about hijacking the thread)[/quote]

I will be there. :woohoo:

Now back on topic folks, I like seeing engine rebuild threads from Ranger. :silly:


#11

Thanks for the picture. So that is what Patton’s little flywheel checker is meant to catch then I guess.


#12

Ranger,

Save yourself a few minutes - leave the shifter intact. I’ve done four motor pulls with the tranny attached - never disconnected the shifter. In fact I don’t even take the Jafster knob off.


#13

I didn’t get a lot of Scott-time Saturday. I fetched engine #8 out of the storage closet, it’s the .020 over bottom end that Chuck Baader built, and with the help of a neighbor got it into the back garage where the race car is. Then I fetched my best head out of the attic. It’s a Metric Mechanic head that was cracked during an overheat (coolant loss) at RA in 2009 at an 8hr enduro. Chuck had the head welded up and did a refresh on the valve seals back when he built #8.

Recall this story :http://www.spece30.com/forum/16-general-discussion/42615-late-night-wrenching-pass-the-glock-pls ? It was her husband that helped me lift the engine so I could get it to the race car. He is not nearly so high strung as his cute-but-high-maintenance wife.

The head had a lot of grit on it so I pressure washed it and sprayed it down with WD40.

There were parts I needed off of the engine that was coming out, most importantly the oil pan, oil pump and crankscraper so those came off.

Sunday morning and the oil pan. Since the crankscraper had already seen a couple engines it went on w/o requiring any clearancing. I used goobage between scraper and block and then a thin cork gasket between pan and scraper. The better oil pan gasket is the thicker paper type but I don’t like how crankscraper and thick paper oil pan gasket combine to drop the oil pan prob 4mm away from the oil pump pickup. One of the charms of the MM scraper is that it doesn’t add thickeness like the I-J scraper.

After carefully scraping and cleaning the mating surfaces I put goobage on the bottom of the block and put the scraper on. You have to put in almost all of the bolts to make sure that the scraper is precisely located.

A bit later I pulled the bolts off, scraped and cleaned the oil pan’s surfaces, put the thin cork oil pan gasket on to the scraper, put some goobage on it in order to compensate it being a shitty thin gasket, and put the oil pan on. To my dismay I stripped out one of the bolt holes in the block. Shit. I was using a beam in-lb torque wrench and doing 80in-lbs for bolts going into AL at front and rear, and 95 in-lbs for bolts going into iron. But clearly one of the bolt holes had been damaged at some point. Shit happens. I decided to hope for the best instead of taking everything back apart and putting in a threadsert.

Bottom of engine now buttoned up.

Sunday afternoon I had to figure out what to do about a water pump. Because of my aftermarket radiator I have to use the late model steel coolant pipe that goes across the front of the radiator. The late model water pump works best becaue it has a fastening point for the coolant tube. I checked my bin of water pumps and found only 2 late model pumps, a clean one with a stamped steel impeller and an unloved one with a rusty cast iron impeller. I put a post at bf.c and e30tech to find out if there was any downside to the stamped steel impeller.

I pulled some bead blasted engine front sheetmetal pieces out of the attic and sprayed some aluminum paint on them so they’d be pretty. I needed the sheetmetal on before putting the head on because the harmonic balancer’s timing mark is on the sheetmetal.

It was time for the family’s traditional Sunday swimming pool visit so I went and swam laps, and put the boys thru their kickboard drills.

Once back home I put the harmonic balancer on. Then removed it, then put it back on, then later removed it once more, and finally put it back on again. The sequence of doing things is often critical and no matter how much you think things thru, there’s always a couple of iterations of having to remove part “B” because you realize no matter how much you try there’s no getting “A” on with “B” already in place. Once the harmonic balancer is on, there’s no getting the timing belt on.

Jim Levie was the first person to answer my post re. the water pump and he said that the stamped steel impeller was fine.

I didn’t have a spare water pump gasket so I used goobage instead. The water pump gasket is a very thin piece so I figured that the goobage will do. I did a hamhanded job of it tho and smeared goobage all over the front of the block trying to get the damn water pump’s bolt holes, that were invisible from my vantage point, to line up.

Next it was the head. I chased the bolt holes and carefully scraped and cleaned the mating surfaces. You have to be careful with the razor on the head because the razor will happily cut right into the aluminum if you are incautious. I had problems with one of the locating pins that go between head and block. Somehow I never seem to have enough of these. My obsessively organized fasterner bins produced only 1, not 2.

A SNAFU associated with one of these pins set off a chain of events years ago where a local shop’s screwup resulted in the total loss of a $2k MM head. That was engine #4 or something like that.

Not having a 2nd head locating pin I pulled one off of one of the spare motors, but it was a little beat up and the head wouldn’t drop into place on the block. It took 30min of careful pin repair with a file to get it sufficiently smooth and round to work. Then the head went on and I went back up to the attic to fetch some (reusable) metric blue bolts I’d used on an engine or 2 prior.

I figured I’d get one more use out of the metric blues and then go to TTY or studs next Winter if I do a head refresh. Although Chuck had a great idea to do a regrind now, I don’t have time to figure out a process I’ve not done before. And I don’t have the spring tool to remove the valves from the head.

At some point here a couple hrs were spent playing monopoly with the family. You have to play monopoly with 7 and 9yr olds to appreciate what a great learning tool it is. Math, a better understanding of money, making change, negotiating deals, financial risk…it’s all there. One of the 7yr olds was the banker.

Back to the engine. I was just about to start popping the metric blue bolts into the head when I realized I’d forgotten the head gasket. Oops. Moments later, Goetz HG in place, I was putting some oil on the bolts and dropping them in. First I torqued them to 30ft lbs, let it sit for a bit, and then torqued them to 45ftlbs. After I’ve test run the engine a bit I’ll torque the bolts to 50ftlbs. That’s somewhat similar to the tightening regimen used for the old hex head bolts.

The timing belt went on pretty easily. The first time it was off by a tooth, but I marked the belt and the 2nd time it went on correctly. Then I realized that the tensioner spring had to go on before the tbelt so that was a redo. It was interesting to note that putting the tbelt on was entirely trivial, yet it’s easy to remember how difficult this was the first time I did it.

Virtually every single bolt in this effort got blue locktite, btw.

It was hot and muggy all day and night. 80deg and a showers off/on. It didn’t seem hot enough to turn on the AC but the humidity had sweat pouring off of me during the whole effort. I had to conciously keep my forehead averted so there wouldn’t be a steady stream of salt water into the engine.

It was pushing midnight when I started on the flywheel and clutch. It took a couple attempts to get the clutch on such that with the bolts tightened down the splined clutch tool happily slid in and out. I knocked off around 12:30.

Re. shifter. Ya, I realized after the tranny came out that disconnecting the shifter was a waste of time.


#14

Any tool rental place will have a valve spring compressor. You are looking at a 4 hour job (learning) at most. The hard part will be removing/replacing the rocker shafts. Everything else is very straightforward. cB


#15

I hear ya but there’s some tasks that call for artists and this has that ring. Maybe if I saw someone else do it first I’d have more confidence. Don’t underestimate my capacity for screwing shit up.

This afternoon I was taking my daily walk and it suddenly occurred to me…what if during the crash when the engine stopped I had a piston hit a valve? How can I be sure that top and bottom end stopped in unison. My schedule for finishing this is already kinda tight, but I think I’m going to have to do a leakdown test or something tonight just to assure myself that I’ve not created a goatscrew.


#16

If the timing belt was still intact, the valves and pistons could not have met.


#17

And you have discovered why you NEVER put an unknown head on a good block…ALWAYS freshen the valve job and you can find those that are bent easily. CB


#18

will be at VIR

Al


#19

I put in 5 solid hours last night, working my ass off the whole time. Sometimes mating up the tranny goes pretty well and other times poorly. This time was poorly. Like the head, I had more trouble with locating pins and after fighting the tranny to exhaustion, me, not it, I put the tranny aside and took a hard look at the locating pins. They were indeed messed up and had been preventing that last 1/2" of mating that is always so hard.

It was raining and thundering furiously outside. Humidity was very high and the lights were flickering when the lightning struck close. I was absolutely drenched in sweat, my arms were shaking with exhaustion and I had to keep resting because my fingers couldn’t sustain the grip under the tranny. At some point I left “fun hobby” behind and was now into a place akin to “survive the death struggle”.

It took ~30min of file work to get both locating pins to the point where they were willing to go into both engine and tranny. 10min later I got the 2 top tranny bolts started and made a judgement call that the tranny was on straight and just needed to be pulled together. So I put in the other 2 big bolts and used all 4 bolts to gently coax the bastards to close the gap. Jesus what a job.

More later.


#20

Yesterday I got anxious that I really didn’t know for certain that my head survived last Dec’s crash intact. So the first thing I did last night was a ghetto compression test. I pulled the plugs and stuck my compression tester in #1 and then turned the engine to #1 TDC and observed the resistance in the wrench, the peak pressure shown by the gauge and how rapidly it bled off. I did that for each cylinder looking for one or two that might not do as well as the others. I’d have to say they all did ok. Thank god.

I have had to run vent hoses on the two transmissions that I’ve used or they will puke out 1/2th their fluid. The problem tho is that vent pipe isn’t quite long enough for a hose and hose clamp to stay on securely. I had resolved to fix this problem now that I had the transmission out. After trying various ideas I put some grease on a 1/8NPT tap to catch shavings and tapped the pipe. Then I put some goobage on a NPT elbow barb and threaded it in.

I had considered removing the pipe and tapping the aluminum, but the pipe didn’t want to come out easily. Also, and this is kind of hard to describe, I could see by the design of the pipe that I could probably tap it and create almost no shavings, whereas tapping the aluminum was going to cause a lot of shavings.

As discussed in the prior post getting the tranny mated up to the engine was a bastard. One of the ideas that helped a lot towards the end was putting in a couple long 8mm bolts into the side 10mm bolt holes to act as guides.

Last night’s list:
Tranny
Starter
Manifolds
Tstat housing
Engine’s mount wings
Alternator

The list seems a mite short for the effort consumed.