I want to delete the oil cooler on my 325is. From what I have seen, you just pull the oil spud (whatever that is) from an “e” engine and delete the oil cooler. First, how do you get this spud off of the “e” engine. I assume once the spud is off, the oil filter just spins on the engine block. Can someone confirm, and perhaps also tell me what size socket or wrench that I’ll need so when I head to the boneyard, I have the tools I need. Alternatively, anyone that has a spare and feels like selling it, I’m game to purchase. Thanks.
You can buy the e motor oil filter adapter at a dealer or various other places. It’s part #11112140435. That’d be a lot easier then getting it from a junkyard.
I know Ranger did it. I know Patton did it on his fleet. I still don’t understand why this makes sense for a track car in the southeast? Sure, it removes one failure point. But how much more often do you need to change the oil as a result of accelerated breakdown?
Cooler oil works better, which is sufficient reason to me to retain an oil cooler. I don’t think much of the OE oil cooler, but it is very easy to replace the OE cooler with a larger unit mounted in a better location.
Steve D wrote:
I know Ranger did it. I know Patton did it on his fleet. I still don’t understand why this makes sense for a track car in the southeast? Sure, it removes one failure point. But how much more often do you need to change the oil as a result of accelerated breakdown?[/quote]
Oil breakdown: Get the girls to do a science experiment for school. Heat two frying pans to 300 degrees. Pour in mineral oil and synthetic. Raise temp to burn-off/breakdown smoke, fire or kick in the butt from wife for smelling up the kitchen…
Note results and never worry about oil breakdown.
Do some oil analysis and only change oil every year to 18 months.
Now go remove a failure point and potential oildown of the race surface.
My big aftermarket oil cooler was 3.5X as large as OEM and had temp sensors just before and after. It provided 14deg of cooling. Based on that, I can’t imagine that the OEM oil cooler is worth >5deg of cooling. I’m comfortable you can get that 5deg by simply allowing good airflow to your oil pan.
Jim is certainly right that cooler oil is better. But if I can keep oil temps down to 210 in Aug by simply allowing air flow to the pan, then the justification for an oil cooler is limited.
IMO oil breakdown is a non-issue. The air-cooled boys would laugh at our oil temps.
If a person wants to focus on cooling the motor, they should focus on coolant, and not oil. Oil is a lousy heat exchange medium, and our engines aren’t really designed to dump their heat into their oil supply. just look at the design of the waterjacket in the block and head, vs. where the oil goes. Keeping your engine cool is important. But the low hanging fruit in that battle is your radiator and it’s airflow.
With a double-pass well shrouded radiator you could drop your engine temp by 10-15deg without hardly trying. Because of the low volume of oil moving around and it’s lousy heat exchange characteristics, your oil could be ice cold and it still probably wouldn’t result in a 15deg cooler engine.
Ask Jim “exxon valdeez” robinson…there are several problem areas on the cooler, the hoses, the bypass/temp valve seal, fittings, the cooler itself when you hit something like track debris, etc…
I did run a cooler at VIR, but it was dang hot…I feel more comfortable without one, if thee is a problem at high speed you are gonna spin in your own oli.
[quote]Ask Jim “exxon valdeez” robinson…there are several problem areas on the cooler, the hoses, the bypass/temp valve seal, fittings, the cooler itself when you hit something like track debris, etc…
I did run a cooler at VIR, but it was dang hot…I feel more comfortable without one, if thee is a problem at high speed you are gonna spin in your own oli.[/quote]
Correct. The OE cooler is a bit on the small side, its mounting location puts it at risk and limits airflow through the cooler, and if original the hoses are probably ready to go.
All of that is easily fixable. A larger cooler can be mounted in front of the radiator where it is less subject to damage and gets better airflow. The hoses can be rebuilt with AN fittings on one end to accomdate the aftermarket cooler. New seals in the oil filter adapter will make it reliable. And if you want a full time oil cooler you can move the thermostat spring to the other side of the thermostat.
I ordered the spud from my local dealer this week. I will be pulling my OEM oil cooler before hitting Sebring in October.
Pretty compelling argument, actually.
I think I just found another use for the E engine sitting in the corner of my garage… Now to see if I can figure out what a spud looks like. :blink:
King Tut wrote:
how much did it cost? since my water temps were easily in check at vir i feel pretty good about getting rid of my oil cooler. i go off track frequently enough that it’s only a matter of time before i damage it
It was $8 and some change.
Let’s hold off on deleting all the oil coolers…BMW saw fit to add one to the “i” cars, so it must be needed.
I don’t think the 210 degrees oil temp seen by Scott last weekend is accurate…I don’t think he has the mechanical gauge hooked up yet, and the electric one does not protrude into the oil pan. My motor clearances are the same as his and I run over 1000rpm less. My oil temps generally run in the 220-240 range on very hot days. I seriously doubt his oil temp was actually 210 or I stay in the throttle a whole lot more than he does. It just does not make sense to me to delete the cooler. Chuck
[quote]Let’s hold off on deleting all the oil coolers…BMW saw fit to add one to the “i” cars, so it must be needed.
I don’t think the 210 degrees oil temp seen by Scott last weekend is accurate…I don’t think he has the mechanical gauge hooked up yet, and the electric one does not protrude into the oil pan. My motor clearances are the same as his and I run over 1000rpm less. My oil temps generally run in the 220-240 range on very hot days. I seriously doubt his oil temp was actually 210 or I stay in the throttle a whole lot more than he does. It just does not make sense to me to delete the cooler. Chuck[/quote]
It would be nice to have a sensor right in the flow. I’d like to be able to compare the two temp measuring locations too, but I’ve no oil plumbing now. In the absence of that kind of comparison, this measuring temp in the pan that I’ve done lately is something short of a slam dunk.
The sensor that I used at RA last weekend is one of the same sensors that I used to have in the flow and gave me ~225 hot before the oil cooler and ~210 after the oil cooler. It has a 13mm probe. I can’t guarantee that my 210 in the pan compares exactly to measuring in the flow, but I see no reason why my measuring in the pan wouldn’t be comparable to someone else measuring in the pan.
The sensor that did not have a probe registered 240deg with the oil pan shield and 195deg without, IIRC. That doesn’t mean that the oil pan was 240deg, and 195deg. The oil would have been a significant moderating influence. It probably means that the oil pan was around, pulling #'s out of my butt, 250deg and 185deg.
If you had to choose between a 250deg oil pan (heated by the block) and a 185deg pan (cooled by the airflow), which would you choose?
Chuck, do you have a shield blocking airflow to your oil pan?
I have a manual oil temp gauge with a probe that extends into the oil (poole pan…8 quart capacity) with nothing blocking the air flow. I run a splitter that extends to the front of the front wheel opening but does not impede air to the pan. I like to sample oil temps in the pan because it is a direct indicator of the temp of the bearings. The NASCAR guy here disagrees as they put the temp probe in the oil cooler exit to the block. Of course they run 300 degree water temps and 50 psi water pressure so what they do does not carry over to our grossly under stressed motors. Chuck
It seems to me that based on what Ranger’s findings are, that even a big cooler does very little, and 220 degrees of oil temp just does not seem to be very much. My un-cooled Factory Five, which runs an old school 5.0l Ford usually sees 220-240 degrees in oil temp and has never had an issue, despite others running coolers and telling me I am nuts. My cooled 600 Racing Thunder Roadster (10,000 rpm Yamaha cycle engine) has a big cooler with fan and runs over 280 all the time without issue. I am aware that both of these engines present an apples to oranges comparison, but still.
Also, I guarantee that the oil cooler is costing oil pressure, which is very necessary, although I have never tested the theory. To me, the fact that the cooler does very little, the drop in oil pressure that I am sure exists, and the risk of failure of one or more components easily mandates its removal.
it’s on my to do list to remove at the next oil change.
We need to change the rule on oil pan shields. We need to be able to rig up something that allows air flow, yet has enough structural strengh to help the car slide over a gator. The oil pan sheild /skid plate doesn’t need to be able to support the weight of the car, it just needs to have the right shape such that the car will tend to slide over the bump.
Anyone want to take a shot at the wording of such a rule change request?
I’m trying to figure out how to cut a big hole in the forward part of my shield, while keeping enough structural strength such that the shield works.
May be someone can thing of a way to gain a competitive advantage from some wierd skid plate, but I can’t think of one. Therefore I’d say the rule should be that skid plates are free providing that the
leading edge is only attached to the lower radiator support, the trailing edge only to the front subframe, and no other attachments are made.
The number of nice, innocent M20 engines that have perished because of that little phrase…
Ranger’s hypothesis is a wild combination of:
- the Factory3 oil pan protector blocks air flow around the pan (not impedes or minimizes, but effectively blocks cooling air flow)
- the stock oil pan is almost as effective at cooling oil as the oil cooler that BMW installed on roughly 1 million M20B25s
Therefore, we need an oil pan protector with holes in it.:blink:
In considering a redesign of the pan (assuming Levie’s language re: attachment points) it would not take a protector much more robust than the Factory3 plate to have the weak point then become the radiator support sheetmetal. You will hit a curb, the pan won’t bend, but the sheetmetal will. Then we will be back here with another rule change.
For Christ sake, just take some brake duct hose and point it at the frigging oil pan and leave the F3P plate in place. I promise not to protest you, Ranger.