CMP Race Results

#21

Gasman wrote:

Gasman -

Are you running a 4.10? :stuck_out_tongue: :laugh:

Steve D.

#22

Gasman wrote:

Steve,

I was driving the wheels off my car trying to keep up. I figured if I could keep the leaders in sight you never know what happens. I could not get close enough to you to pass. unfortunate how it turned out coming out of 3, I had one option!!

BTW: here is a dyno of my car, you can see when it hits rev limit. You can’t see my tach so you must just be coming out of the turns faster. Most of my keeping up was done under braking.

These runs were with the same 173 I ran this past weekend, with 2 runs from a 153 I got from Patton

#23

Gasman wrote:

[quote]Jones wrote:

Brian, Sorry my friend but you did ask for opinions. I have to say after looking at your video that it looks like you caused this accident. You had already passed the braking zone (without braking) for turn 4 if you intended to take the inside corner. There is no way you could have made this turn on cold tires this late. This is not the racing line so Robert had the line in my opinion. I’d say this was a high risk low probability move without question.[/quote]

I appreciate the opinion, I’m trying to get all angles here.

If you watch the video, my car was never out of control (and I did brake for the corner :wink: )and I was as far left as I could be at the time. Bad decision, probably, but not out of control.

Al- you are correct, I had no intention of passing Robert on the outside once we were in the braking zone, he had picked up enough speed by that point that it wasn’t going to happen but I was already committed then. I had a great run out of three and with cars behind me, I made the move, otherwise I would have had to really check up to get in line behind him.

Low percentage move? certainly. I wont be trying that again.

Johan and I went thru T4 like that a couple of times on Sunday, me in front and him behind me. I left room because he was there, didn’t make the apex, and still there was no way he could get around me on the outside of the carousel even with me compromising the corner.

#24

Ranger wrote:

Very true, but having the “right” to the line/apex doesn’t always make it a good idea to take it. If you’re right and crashed what good is that?

#25

Jones wrote:

[quote]Ranger wrote:

Very true, but having the “right” to the line/apex doesn’t always make it a good idea to take it. If you’re right and crashed what good is that?[/quote]

I entirely agree. And I don’t want my car hurt so I will usually play nice nice. But it’s important that everyone understands what the rules are. I haven’t heard much discussion of passing rules lately. And I’m sure that there are folks that think that if they have a nose in, they have a right to be there.

The BMWCCA CCR, or whatever they call their rule book, has a whole appendix that diagrams different passing scenarios and who has the right to the line when. And they talk about thru different scenarios in comp school. In our comp school, and thereafter it doesn’t get mentioned much. To me, passing rules seems pretty important. Would be worth emphasizing in a race meeting a couple times/yr.

I talked to Bob Chrystler this weekend. That Miata that punted him wasn’t even determined to be at fault. It was labeled a racing incident. That driver had no right to be there and he punted Bob into a wall. I’m concerned that we’re going to create a culture where contact is common because low risk moves are common. We can try to prevent that culture that by making sure that everyone understands passing rules and that fault is determined. There will certainly be times when contact is just a racing incident, like a guy had pulled up enough to have a right to be there but it happened so fast that the other guy was caught off guard. But in Bob’s incident, I don’t see how that Miata had a right to be there. So if that’s just a “racing incident” then the rules no longer matter. And that’s bad.

#26

(My 2 cents)

I’ve gone through that corner 2 wide more than a couple of times. I’m sure others have as well. “stealing the apex” in that corner isn’t going to gain you much time, your already on the inside for the following corner. Sorry to see the carnage. Nobody wants stuff like this to happen. It’s unfortunate. Hope you guys get your cars back together soon. Lemme know if I can do anything to help.

cheers.

#27

I don’t have much of my own to add. I lost the mojo for Saturday’s race after the first lap stuff (extremely disappointing that we had instant replays from 2008), and Sunday’s race only lasted two laps until Steve Canterbury had his little tank-slapper and I was in the perfectly wrong spot to collect him when he flashed across in front of me. It felt like a pretty hard hit, but my car is fixable. Needs all new front sheetmetal, core support, radiator, and not sure what else yet. Haven’t started disassembly, but Kelly found me a cheap parts car that is allegedly complete up front so I think I’m in good shape there.

I found over on the NASA forum the 944 director posted some footage chasing a pack of SpecE30s so I’ll link to it here.

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=26185

The Scott G project was actually pretty inspiring, right up until the mother had no spark no fuel. As a parts-swapper but not really a mechanic, I realized I was out of my league and let the pros take over. Bob Shields and Carl (sorry did not get last name) from Florida along with Patton/Levie buckled down and changed every freaking part 2 or 3 times, and eventually it fired. Cheers all around. Was really cool to see all the people who put in a lot or a little time, or shagged parts (Fred how many miles did you log that day visiting auto parts stores) to get Scott on the track. It’s perhaps the most satisfying aspect of the SpecE30 community.

#28

I’ll throw in my 2 cents. I haven’t driven CMP but just from what I can see in the video (which might not tell the whole story), I’m not driving to the apex as the car being passed especially with a right hander following. I always leave racing room especially at the start of the race. My whole goal at the start of a race is to maintain position (not advance any). Based on the passing car’s angle of entry and where he is I’m already expecting the worse. Having said that it looks like a low percentage move to me, if I’m the passing car I’m at least going to consider that the inside won’t be mine. You need to approach the corner with the mind set that you can trail brake the corner to the inside over the curb if things don’t work out, with your speed and entry angle there was no way to avoid contact once it was apparent he was not going to give you space. You need to also know your opponent. Generally you should have an idea of how individuals drive on the track. Some are more aggressive than others. Some will play nice, some won’t but until you know that assume the worst. When Lucas and I drove almost a whole lap side by side on the final lap at Mid Ohio last year, it was very apparent that he was more interested in giving me racing room than winning. There were a number of corners where he could have simply squeezed me and won the race easily. The main one was the left hander before the carasoel, normally I would not try to hold an outside line there but I knew he would give me plenty of room. That was great fun and it would have been just as exciting coming 2nd in that race because it was the racing that made it so much fun. If we had wrecked each other on that last lap, everything goes out the window, it sucks for everybody. I know it’s hard to overcome the red mist sometimes but just remember why you do this, it’s for fun on and off the track. We aren’t winning anything, there is no step up to World Challenge, nobody cares how fast we are, nobody is watching. Crashing makes it no fun for anyone as you are probably finding out. You don’t need to know the passing rules, its common sense and common curtsey. I personally think that there have been too many incidents in this series from over agressive driving. I know its spec racing and I expect there to be more contact than at a BMW Club race but I do think we have had too many avoidable incidents.

#29

Simon, can you hear the applause? Good post, should be required reading.

#30

Jones wrote:

Brian -

That’s good enough for me. I think it was a very stand-up thing to post the video and take others’ opinions. Very respectable.

Here’s my take on the incident: I agree with your statement that you were not (yet) out of control when the impact took place. But if you look ahead to predict what happens at the exit of the caroussel, there is no way that that move does anything other than put more space between you and/or Robert (whoever survives) and the leading cars.

What to do when you and the cars right behind you have a run like that? Move over and take the middle of the track – but breathe off just a bit so you say behind his rear wheel. Not tough to do with the taxi!!! Robert stays outside. Cars behind can choose to stay behind you, get behind Robert (and be in no position to try an outside pass when they reach the corner) or take the inside-inside lane, which will never get them close to next to you. You reach the braking point, slot in behind Robert, and you have protected your position. Then you hope he bobbles the caroussel and you make a run down into 8.

It has been an absolute blast getting to know some of the personalities on and off track. But I am surprised at the number of guys who want to get all racy in the first couple laps when working together would really work better. There you go. All my speed secrets on the table.:laugh:

Steve D.

#31

Greetings from Florida
Good job SE, it was an awesome weekend (other than the carnage and the red flags). Sunday’s race was so dang much fun even though I spun out and didn’t finish the race. I was happy to start to get a handle on CMP, it’s a fun course. Dropping 3 seconds from Saturday sure did make Sunday more fun. I just wish my camera’s battery didn’t crap out before my big spin in turn 3. My only regret is I don’t have it on tape. If anyone caught it, please let me know.

I was so impressed with the help getting Scott on the road. Makes me glad I picked Spec E30.
As the visiting Florida contingent, it was great meeting y’all. Last year’s race was my first encounter with Spec E30 and witnessed the carnage then. One thing I did notice is that we made it farther than you did last year…lol Having already replaced the front clip on my car I know the feeling of having a wrecked car and all I can say is IT SUCK$! Good luck with your projects and we have some new front end parts if anyone needs them.
Glad y’all liked our little mirror mod we did on Brian’s car, it just seemed like the right thing to do, anyway it was better than pink :-p

Hope y’all can make it down for a race in Fl. Sebring is worth the drive. We have a race there at the end of March so we won’t be at RA. Anyway we’ll see ya soon.

#32

Gasman wrote:

Steve you may want to check your car… You were making similar accusations about me and my car at CMP last year. Just say’n

#33

Divebomb- when you dive inside someone into a corner without having full control, thus causing the other guy to check up while you fight for control thru the middle of the corner, leaving him in the clutches of the following cars while you make a getaway out of the corner.

From Wierd Al’s Rural Dictionary

#34

yes Scott, thank you…I’ll do that.

#35

Brian,

As you said, it was a pretty low percentage move. I might have made the same initial move, but with the plan to back out. Peak inside and see if the lead car will give you the lane, but plan on not making the pass. What you have to consider with T4 is that the brake zone is about 10 feet long–you won’t be able to outbreak the lead car to gain position. With any high speed corner, you need to be almost door-to-door to make a pass work, especially since you would be on the outside of the next corner.

Of course, if I were the lead car, I wouldn’t have gone that hard towards the apex either. Steve D brings up a good point as well about working together.

#36

The panther without question had the right to be there. If the passing car is not in position, the passed car has the right to drive the fastest line (hit apex). Anything else is a gift.

As others said, I dont think the passing car made a dive bomb, but it was a slight mis-judgement. Unfortunately that doesnt affect the cost of the damage.

.02

#37

Well I just got word my car is fixable:woohoo: Just have to start rounding up parts.

#38

Let me know when the wrench/sawzall party starts. I’m ready!:woohoo:

John

#39

DMoses wrote:

I’m very happy to hear that, but frankly quite surprised as there is obvious damage to the driver’s side strut tower.

Good luck!

#40

Nah, that just gave him more camber.

John