car weight

#101

Ranger wrote:

[quote]Steve D wrote:

[quote]I hope this doesn’t sound harsh, but if you aren’t willing to unbolt the passenger seat, scrape the mat out of the trunk, and/or replace your 20+ year old fuel system to make weight at 2650 or 2700 without starvation (yours or your engine’s), you’re probably not taking the steps on setup and car prep to put you further up the grid anyway.

Running 25 pounds heavy under those conditions isn’t going to be a game changer.
[/quote]

It’s about cheap and easy. Cheap and easy. Cheap and easy.
Not necessarily faster.
Not necessarily better.
Cheaper.
Easier.

Everyone: After each post ask yourself…“is this guy thinking cheap and easy?”[/quote]

We’re not talking about you dating history, Scott :wink:
And I question your whole “cheap and easy” motto. I mean… have you ever read your posts. You may think you’re cheap (motor #9) but I’ve yet to see you do anything “easy” (brake test, Vegas-esque dash, oil anything). Of course this is coming from a guy who limits his tinkering with the car to painting and fluid and filter changes.

In all seriousness… I agree with “cheap and easy” and I think it’ll be pretty easy for 98% of us to drop 50-100 pounds.

Kishg, removing trunk tar - is easy and cheap. either heat to tar up and it’ll come out easy or wait for a freezing day and it’ll chip out. truck tag = 45+ lbs

#102

scottmc wrote:

Oh I was ALL about cheap and easy.

Then I got married. Everything is expensive, and the required negotiation and compromise runs a 1% success rate.

Sometimes I miss cheap and easy.

#103

I agree with Scott. I only weigh 150 and my car is stripped almost to the limit of the rules (it does have a heater core). It carries 90lb of ballast for a race starting with a full tank. Dropping 100lb from from the minimum weight would mean removing all ballast and starting with a bit less than a full tank. That in turn would require replacement of the OE fuel level sensors with something much more accurate and incur significant expense. A heavier driver in a car of similar build would have a real problem in getting down to weight.

Dropping the weight by 50lb I could see, but not by 100lb. I’m not convinced that a minor adjustment of the minimum weight by only 50lb is going to significantly reduce tire or brake wear. Though it could cause a good bit of work and expense for some cars. If I were going to change the rules I’d leave the minimum weight at 2750 and make placement of ballast free.

#104

50# - yes, should be fairly easy for most people. 100# - erm, maybe not so much. i can only speak for myself but carry 45# of ballast, weigh 200#, and just barely make weight. no tar, no PS, no door glass, no spare tire, nothing easy to remove (except my oil cooler but let’s not go there). still, i wouldn’t object to <2700# since it would give me plenty of margin for error and something to shoot for over the winter.

#105

scottmc wrote:

[quote]
Kishg, removing trunk tar - is easy and cheap. either heat to tar up and it’ll come out easy or wait for a freezing day and it’ll chip out. truck tag = 45+ lbs[/quote]

yeah, or use dry ice… just trying to keep it reeeal easy here for ranger… ya know he likes things simple and easy :stuck_out_tongue:

#106

I run 100 pounds of ballast mounted to a 25 pound plate, and a spare tire in the rear well. No sound deadener or tar, no doorpanels or glass. No heater core or box. Nothing plastic or other material that can burn. Just like a race car should be.

Ranger, simple and cheap? Don’t even get me started on the pile of computers you guys run to get your AF ratios correct. That isn’t simple or cheap.

I think the ruleset of SE30 is pretty stable. But I think a few things, like weight, fuel pressure regulators, and power to weight tables need to be addressed. In the end, even if they aren’t addressed, I’ll still come, but they should be addressed.

#107

So does every one agree that the rear trunk tar weight about 45lbs in an early car or is it the rear seat and trunk tar that weights 45lbs??

#108

I literally just pulled my trunk tar a few weeks ago trying to get my car lighter, so I weighed all the chunkage. It was around 30 lbs. Now, there was a little bit missing from the front portion of the trunk where the cage was welded in, but not more than 5 lbs worth, so 45 seems awful high to me. I’m talking trunk tar only, not anything from in front of the rear seat bulkhead.

#109

I am new here, and new to SE30. But I have been racing for a while. We are trying to grow the SoCal section. In any case, I would very much support any weight reduction, as would all of us in SoCal. I am running 125 lbs in the pas floor, a spare, and a 42 lb battery. I barely make weight with a full tank and I weigh 185lbs! My car is pretty stripped, but I can go even lighter in less than 1 hour. I still have a PS pump and a heater core …

The biggest advantage I can see to the weight reduction would be to make the cars a tick or two faster in E3 (enduro class). Right now, we struggle with the Spec Miata’s out here and being 100 lbs down might give me the tick or two I want to run the endro series next year competitively. My dream is to beat the Spec Miatas at the 25 hr. I ran it once before in an E0 GTS3 M3 and it was just too expensive…

My Two Cents,
Garrett

85 Ugly Red 4 Door …

#110

My friend wanted to run SE30 here on the west coast. After doing the basic build of a race car we are well under the weight.



Mind you there is no

  • oil cooler
  • heater core assembly
  • trunk/interior tar
  • front windows/ motor assembly
  • not a full tank of gas
  • plastic rear bumper conversion (in progress)
  • weight ballast
  • spare tire well
  • NO ac/ps oh yah its an E model too

that is all within 2 weeks worth of work we did on the car. This was easier then my friends nasa H2 crx.

I vote for weight reduction. no reason to be slower then a miata because we outweigh them.

give us a few more weeks to finish up the car properly.

I figure once we add::

  • passenger seat/harness
  • cool suit/radio & comms
  • roll bar padding and other safety items (window nets and the lot)
  • ballast (for better cross weights)

we should be 100-150 pounds heavier (doubtful).

#111

Those door bars? Yikes. Just thinking about what happens in a t-bone makes me cringe.

I plan to submit a rule change request to permit bumper swaps but at this point that’s not a legal modification.

45% cross? Yikes again! That is a lot of work finished in two weeks though.

Again I’ll state my opinion: We need to find the lowest weight that is achievable by the vast majority of existing cars and does not penalize folks with very robust cages. Also, I think the weight should factor in enough weight allowance for the heater core to remain (in the Southeast we race in December and February - and in the rain). Also, if there is enough room in the number, the instructors can keep passenger seats installed – and keep hooking HPDE newbies with the E30 drug.

#112

Steve D wrote:

I agree with everything except allowing for a passenger seat. If you build the mount right installing or removing the passenger seat is at most a 15 minute exercise. Those that want to instruct at a DE can swap in the seat and take it back out for a race (or suffer a 30-40lb penalty). I’d rather have a lower car weight and deal with installing and removing the seat.

#113

jlevie wrote:

I don’t disagree strongly with your position, but I think we need to be mindful of the benefits that come with making it easy on instructors. Having watched Robert and Laura for a few weekends, even 15 minutes for each install or removal would add up to quite a burden. A Sparco Circuit Pro seat is 21 lbs. Call it 25 with mounts.

In theory, easy process => plentiful instructors => lots of DE revenue for Pantas => lower fees for the racers. My personal view is that a healthy instructor group is a worthwhile trade-off for that last 25 lbs.

#114

Steve D wrote:

[quote]jlevie wrote:

I don’t disagree strongly with your position, but I think we need to be mindful of the benefits that come with making it easy on instructors. Having watched Robert and Laura for a few weekends, even 15 minutes for each install or removal would add up to quite a burden. A Sparco Circuit Pro seat is 21 lbs. Call it 25 with mounts.

In theory, easy process => plentiful instructors => lots of DE revenue for Pantas => lower fees for the racers. My personal view is that a healthy instructor group is a worthwhile trade-off for that last 25 lbs.[/quote]

I’d never want to make things difficult on those who choose to instruct. But… don’t instructors do their instructing in the students car? So why make an acception for the extra seat :huh:

BTW: what were the results of the weight change poll?

#115

taking students for rides is a big part of instructing imo. I’d like to keep the seat in the car and make weight but i won’t haggle over a 15-20m of extra prep.

#116

Steve D wrote:

[quote]Those door bars? Yikes. Just thinking about what happens in a t-bone makes me cringe.

I plan to submit a rule change request to permit bumper swaps but at this point that’s not a legal modification.

45% cross? Yikes again! That is a lot of work finished in two weeks though.

Again I’ll state my opinion: We need to find the lowest weight that is achievable by the vast majority of existing cars and does not penalize folks with very robust cages. Also, I think the weight should factor in enough weight allowance for the heater core to remain (in the Southeast we race in December and February - and in the rain). Also, if there is enough room in the number, the instructors can keep passenger seats installed – and keep hooking HPDE newbies with the E30 drug.[/quote]

This is my vehicle. The cage is not complete. I still need to plate wrap and dimpledie the joints and add two down tubes from the rear down to the rear seat pan.

The corner balance is incorrect because the ground is not completely level where I had it nor the suspension was setup. That was strictly for weight idea.

This cage when complete will weight more than a normal safe spec cage, well because I’m not concerned with the weight when it comes to a safety factor.

thanks for looking.

#117

scottmc wrote:

[quote]
I’d never want to make things difficult on those who choose to instruct. But… don’t instructors do their instructing in the students car? So why make an acception for the extra seat :huh:

BTW: what were the results of the weight change poll?[/quote]

yes but ride alongs are (imho) a significant part of instructing. my car has passenger accommodations that will never be removed regardless of the min weight, far too much hassle.

#118

R/R my seats is a surprising amount of pita. Last night I spent 45min just trying to tilt the driver’s seat back. It once to me two hours to put the MFing passenger seat in. I finally had to take the mounts out and drill larger holes because the seat-holes just would not line up.

Instructors need passenger seats in their car because taking the student for the ride can be the best way to get some of the subtlties across to them. Don’t make it hard.

#119

I’ve had a few heater cores pop on me so I don’t know why anyone would leave that time-bomb in their car. I’m all for removing everything that is unnecessary including abs, horns and all the lights other than brake lights. Ballast should definitely be free also. And as for instructors I’ve only had one that let me ride along.

#120

turbo329is wrote:

[quote]I’ve had a few heater cores pop on me so I don’t know why anyone would leave that time-bomb in their car.[/quote] A view shared by a lot of folks. I like having defrost for rain sessions though.

[quote] I’m all for removing everything that is unnecessary including abs, horns and all the lights other than brake lights.[/quote] Unnecessary, maybe. Illegal to remove, yup.

[quote]And as for instructors I’ve only had one that let me ride along.[/quote] I wouldn’t blame that on the instructor. :laugh: