Camber Plates -- The end-all, be-all thread.

#1

Now that I’m done with the rookie book, it’s time to address the issues with the car (overweight, underprepared and wheezy)… amongst those issues is the fact that I’m still running the stock plates.

The contenders:
[ul][li]Shadetreeâ„¢: Not adjustable – stock plates, offset ¾" toward the center of the car. (Free.)[/li]
[li]Ireland Engineering: Camber adjustable; some issues with mount deformation – this may be due to swapping the SpecE30 & coil-over plates in the warehouse, some installation difficulties.(Ireland, FlyingBrick)[/li]
[li]K-MAC: Caster and camber adjustble. Potential difficulty in producing repeatable settings; may interfere with strut brace?? (KMac, Turner)[/li]
[li]Vorshlag/Motor-Force: Camber adjustable. (Vorshlag, FlyingBrick)[/li][/ul]

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences?

#2

Dan,

I’ve got the Ireland plates and I would not classify them as "adjustable." They appear adjustable, yet the top spring perch limits inward motion and the nuts on the plate up top hit the edge of the circlular cut-out in the shock tower, limiting outward motion.

Sasha

#3

has anyone really "adjusted" for less camber anyway?

#4

Ex36 wrote:

[quote]Dan,

I’ve got the Ireland plates and I would not classify them as "adjustable." They appear adjustable, yet the top spring perch limits inward motion and the nuts on the plate up top hit the edge of the circlular cut-out in the shock tower, limiting outward motion.

Sasha[/quote]

Sasha,
You make a good point, besides I’m not sure why you would need/want to adjust them anyway unless its a dual purpose car. I also have the IE adjustable plates set at maximum camber which is about -2.8 degrees.

It would make more sense to me if you had the option to use fixed aftermarket plates and save a significant amount of money over the adjustable ones.

#5

I have the KMACs and would describe them as simple and trouble-free.

There are no degree or scale markings, so if you like to move them around, moving them back could be a challenge unless you develop your own methods.

I’ve actually moved my entire suspension intact, now it’s on shell #3.

I previously had paid real cash for an alignment, but last winter, building out this last one, I moved 'em in as far as they’d go, then back as far as they’d go.

Max Camber/Caster in that order. They look visually to be about where everybody else ends up, and my car is overall pretty neutral and non-squirrelly, so I’m OK with it.

I’m less impressed with the KMAC approach to the rear trailing arm offset bushings. They seem to be prone to moving around and/or just plain coming loose.

I have a Sparco strut brace and the KMACs didn’t interfere with the strut brace attachment, by the way.

#6

not for Spec E30, but my son’s lowered e30 iX needs some camber taken out because he’s wearing through the inner edge of the tires in about 13000 street miles …

some who drive their spec e30 to the track may want to take out camber for the drive to/from the track.
cheers,
bruce

nasaregistrar wrote:

#7

last I checked several months ago, the MF/Vorschlag plates are not compatible with bilsteins and stock size springs.
cheers,
bruce

sharkd wrote:

[quote]Now that I’m done with the rookie book, it’s time to address the issues with the car (overweight, underprepared and wheezy)… amongst those issues is the fact that I’m still running the stock plates.

The contenders:
[ul][li]Dubovskyâ„¢: Not adjustable – stock plates, offset ¾" toward the center of the car. (Free.)[/li]
[li]Ireland Engineering: Camber adjustable; some issues with mount deformation – this may be due to swapping the SpecE30 & coil-over plates in the warehouse, some installation difficulties.(Ireland, FlyingBrick)[/li]
[li]K-MAC: Caster and camber adjustble. Potential difficulty in producing repeatable settings; may interfere with strut brace?? (KMac, Turner)[/li]
[li]Vorshlag/Motor-Force: Camber adjustable. (Vorshlag, FlyingBrick)[/li][/ul]

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences?[/quote]

#8

leggwork wrote:

[quote]not for Spec E30, but my son’s lowered e30 iX needs some camber taken out because he’s wearing through the inner edge of the tires in about 13000 street miles …

some who drive their spec e30 to the track may want to take out camber for the drive to/from the track.
cheers,
bruce

nasaregistrar wrote:

Yes, This I understand.

#9

leggwork wrote:

[quote]last I checked several months ago, the MF/Vorschlag plates are not compatible with bilsteins and stock size springs.
cheers,
bruce[/quote]

Bruce, you’re right – according to Vorschlag’s website:

[quote]Bilstein struts with stock style springs

Due to tight packaging with the short upper stem of Bilstein’s inverted strut design, and the stock spring perch’s off-center mounting, it is very difficult to make a camber plate with a real axial bearing fit this set-up. Other camber plate manufacturer’s Bilstein/Stock Style spring solutions use the spherical bearing for axial rotation; that compromise is not acceptable to Vorshlag for many reasons. Having an axial bearing allows the strut shaft to turn without turning the spherical bearing. When this is not done, you will hear "pops" when you turn the wheel, and there will be considerable steering resistance from the spherical bearing; it will also wear out the spherical bearing much sooner than necessary. Vorshlag is currently working on an all-new Bilstein spring perch design to overcome this challenge and will have our solution out soon. Look for our new Bilstein/stock spring perch design in Q1-2007.[/quote]

Between IE’s "issues" with design and warehouse, MF/V’s incompatibility with our spec’d suspension and the fact that KMAC’s major advantage (adj. caster) comes at the expense of achieving max. camber, the Shadetree option is looking more and more attractive (not to mention chea… er, frugal).

#10

The amount of adjustment you get is solely limited by the diameter of the stock spring perch. These cars have a ton of body roll so somewhere around 4 degrees will be about optimal.

All of the current camber plates reuse a stock style upper spring seat. This forces the weight of the car to ride through the spherical bearing. I have not heard of any deformation issues with any of the E30 plates on the market. Simply issues with the bearing wearing quickly which will happen with ANY of these designs in race condition. James and I were extremely abusive to my car in Atlanta and my IE plates have no problems. The problem I have is when XX company comes out with an aftermarket offset perch to gain even more camber…I’ll let you know how that goes when I get parts back from the machine shop. This will make the front spring act funny but who cares.

Essentially what I’m telling you as long as you solid mount the shock with a spherical and you can bottom the perch out against the inner wall the camber plate is perfectly adequate. You won’t need to adjust it…ever.

#11

Dan - we have these, made by RTRS and they use the stock upper strut bearing. Ed

#12

edavidson wrote:

[quote]Dan - we have these, made by RTRS and they use the stock upper strut bearing. Ed
[/quote] does the factory "offset" bearing used with these offer more camber?

#13

sharkd wrote:

9.3.8.1 Any adjustable camber or camber/caster plate is allowed, unless specified in these regulations.

Guys:

As we’ve mentioned before, a non adjustable camber plate is technically not legal.

While no one has been DQ’d by Spec E30 for having a non adjustable plate, they might be checked in the future and another driver can protest this anytime…but I won’t.

Carter

#14

:pinch: I guess I’ll put that $300 back into the budget.

Carter, are you still using KMacs? If so, what’s your opinion of them and do they interefere with a sparco-style strut brace?

BTW, just out of curiousity’s sake – and not to make an argument out of this – why do the rules allow adjustable plates, but not fixed plates? The fixed plates (even the retail ones) are less expensive and presumably more durable than the ones with moving parts.

#15

Sean - good question. I would probably guess yes.

BTW, just so everyone is clear - these are considered adjustable camber plates, but they use the stock bearing.

Ed

#16

on my e30 M3, I have the Kmacs and a sparco strut bar, no problems
bruce

sharkd wrote:

[quote]:pinch: I guess I’ll put that $300 back into the budget.

Carter, are you still using KMacs? If so, what’s your opinion of them and do they interefere with a sparco-style strut brace?

BTW, just out of curiousity’s sake – and not to make an argument out of this – why do the rules allow adjustable plates, but not fixed plates? The fixed plates (even the retail ones) are less expensive and presumably more durable than the ones with moving parts.[/quote]

#17

I currently run the Kmacs with a sparco strut brace with no problems either.

#18

Good to know. Now I just need a sugar daddy (or, preferably, a job) to help me pay for those adjustable plates.:huh:

#19

sharkd wrote:

[quote]Good to know. Now I just need a sugar daddy (or, preferably, a job) to help me pay for those adjustable plates.:huh:[/quote]:woohoo: :woohoo: I surely hope you mean Sugar Momma!!

#20

nasaregistrar wrote:

[quote]sharkd wrote:

:laugh: :stuck_out_tongue: the things people will do to support their racing habits …:laugh: